Fender Flavours ?¿?

ChrisMusic

@relic245 said:

@Gassage said:

Tweed- rough and saggy

What does saggy actually mean? I hear a lot about sag but zero idea what its all about. 

I was hoping that someone more knowledgeable would chip in on this...

I'll take a crack at it though, I know very little about valve amps, so please correct me if I am wrong.

Sag is compression, due to the demands on the amps power supply exceeding what is available.  Cheaper amp topologies, the limited current supply of the rectifier valve and the total storage capacitance of the power supply mean that when you 'hit' the amp hard, the supply bogs down, or sags, then recovers as the demand is taken off ready for the next 'hit'.  This gives a 'softer' and more 'spongey' response.

Solid state rectifiers usually have a greater current capacity, and hence 'sag' down less, giving more immediacy.

I hope that explanation gets someway towards helping...

ChrisMusic

So ~ one big question ~ can you EQ black face to sound like silver face, and vice versa ?

JayGee

mr-mac said:

Quadraverb   if you think twinreverb is heavy hahahahaha

I'll see your Quad and raise you a Super Six. Clearly somebody at Fender saw somebody wrestling with an Ampeg SVT 8x10 cab and didn't see why bass players should have all the fun. I've seen smaller refrigerators than that monster...

impmann

I had a Super Twin once in the shop I worked at... it was astonishingly heavy, sounded awful and had enough power to demolish a tower block. Apparently Ted Nugent used to use a bank of the things (probably to hide behind while shooting innocent wildlife), which must have been entertaining for the sound engineer.

Worst valve-powered Fender amp? Gets my vote.

ChrisMusic

@Richardj said:

First proper amp was a Blues Deluxe, thought a Mesa should be better, it wasn't. Have since had lots of decent amps, Cornford, Koch, Rivera etc. but none of them have really come near what I want. Each time I've gone back to a Fender amp. Pro Juniors, Deluxe Reverb, Twin.

I'm back with my old Hot Rod Deluxe again and it seems that for me a Fender 6L6 powered amp is tonal heaven.  I really want another '68 Custom Twin, that was just epic.

Thanks Richard, I remember you speaking very highly about your Twin, and I was somewhat surprised when you sold it.  It's good to know that you still hold it in high regard.

I can see me getting a Twin (of some type?), especially as a reference point to judge others, and they're easy to hire as back line too.  They have a wonderful sense of 'authority' which seems missing in smaller amps.  Now the whole wattage thing is yet another can of worms, how did the twin work out for you at home ?

BTW, what was it like with pedals, a bit brash or controllable, how did you find it ?

What I am really trying to avoid at the moment is the whole 'down the rabbit hole' thing with amps.  Hence my initial questions trying to narrow my search through communal understanding, followed by a bit of judicious internet & YT research.

Richardj

ChrisMusic said:

@Richardj said:

First proper amp was a Blues Deluxe, thought a Mesa should be better, it wasn't. Have since had lots of decent amps, Cornford, Koch, Rivera etc. but none of them have really come near what I want. Each time I've gone back to a Fender amp. Pro Juniors, Deluxe Reverb, Twin.

I'm back with my old Hot Rod Deluxe again and it seems that for me a Fender 6L6 powered amp is tonal heaven.  I really want another '68 Custom Twin, that was just epic.

Thanks Richard, I remember you speaking very highly about your Twin, and I was somewhat surprised when you sold it.  It's good to know that you still hold it in high regard.

I can see me getting a Twin (of some type?), especially as a reference point to judge others, and they're easy to hire as back line too.  They have a wonderful sense of 'authority' which seems missing in smaller amps.  Now the whole wattage thing is yet another can of worms, how did the twin work out for you at home ?

BTW, what was it like with pedals, a bit brash or controllable, how did you find it ?

What I am really trying to avoid at the moment is the whole 'down the rabbit hole' thing with amps.  Hence my initial questions trying to narrow my search through communal understanding, followed by a bit of judicious internet & YT research.

A Twin is a wall of tone. I carefully didn't say volume though. They can undoubtedly rearrange internal organs and level small buildings, but the joy of them is that they sound virtually the same at friendly volumes too. They just sound so 'big'. I especially liked the '68 Custom as in a reckless moment I turned it up and actually got it to fractionally crunch without killing anyone. The '68 is just that little bit more dynamic than the '65.

It loved modulation etc. but ODs were a bit more tricky as you have to rely on the pedal to make the right noises rather than the amp. After a fair amount of expensive faffing around I found the cheap as chips TC Mojo Mojo and Dark Matter worked really well for hairy crunch and distortion.

My honest best advice is take your favourite guitar (hopefully a Strat, man it sounds good with a Strat) and sit for a while with one. Listen to the little nuances first before giving it the beans. It could be a life affirming experience.

IMHO of course.

ChrisMusic

Cheers Richard, that's a well articulated perspective.  Pretty much substantiates my feelings too, including the caveat about O/Ds.

My first experience with a Twin was, having seen them only on other peoples stages, in a very large rehearsal room, "Silverface vintage '70s, oh, this must be like a Marshall, I'll just wind it up and hit a chord and see what it sounds like", boy was that ever painful, so painful I will never forget !

I think the current RIs are a little less intense, hopefully.

I need to do more research, but apart from the weight issue, a Twin is definitely on the horizon, potentially  

Lebarque

No doubt Twins are mega, but too loud and too heavy for me. Give me a Deluxe any day.

ChrisMusic

My assumption about Deluxes is that they probably won't stay that clean in the presence of a loud drummer.  Am I right or wrong about that ?

Lebarque

It's all subjective, but i find 18-20 watt amps work for me. Point them at your head and mic for gigs. 

ChrisMusic

I guess it depends on your interpretation of 'clean' too.  I'm thinking absolutely pristine clean in this instance.

Lebarque

Carr Rambler for pristine clean

ChrisMusic

Cheers @Lebarque I appreciate your input.  I haven't tried the Rambler, although I know they get a lot of praise from some on here.

Lebarque

Rambler's give you 28 watts of pristine clean and are clean most of the way up. Great clean amp or pedal platform. There's one in the classifieds for £1350 i believe. (No affiliation)

ChrisMusic

So I suppose that given the title of the thread is 'Fender Flavours', I should confirm where the Rambler sits in this ?

Lebarque

Modern interpretation of Deluxe Reverb

ChrisMusic

Cheers @Lebarque , much appreciated  

Richardj

Not sure what powers the Rambler, but I found that that 22 watts of 6V6 DRRi didn't really cut it.

If a Twin (or equivalent) is on your radar then there is only one way to be sure.

ChrisMusic

I'm trying to keep an open mind about the possibilities at the moment, both tonally, but that also includes the wattage issue, and the potential to mic up, or  even cab-sim and DI.

I'm still in 'old school' mode in my thinking, so the spread and authority of a 2x12 with a little grunt is an attractive option to my ears, if not my back, so you may be right Richard.

As for rearranging internal organs, working with a row of 24" subs achieves that with ease, and working on the development of a 36" sub can only be likened to military research, devastating !   So, yeah, been there  

Back to Fender Flavours, I may yet be surprised at where sonic nirvana leads though, so keep talking to me everyone, your input and opinions are appreciated.

ChrisMusic

Red Plates ? 

Now they look interesting too, if a little confusing with continually moving product specs.

@Wazmeister and @hywelg , I know both of you have discerning ears, and have both had / have Red Plate amps.  

How does their implementation of the different flavours impress you ?

And what else do they bring to the party, sonically speaking ?

All help and advice greatly appreciated