Went looking for a new guitar, got legalese, T&Cs and a lot of gift vouchers

Mooster

If you want to skip my long rant, my message is:

1. If you shop at GuitarGuitar in store and find something you like, please don't take it to the till. Instead whip out your mobile phone and buy the same thing online because you have more protected consumer rights.

2. Even better, please shop at Coda Music or Peach Guitars instead where they treat you like a human being instead of throwing the law book at you.

A couple of weeks ago, I walked into GuitarGuitar’s Birmingham store looking for a mid-priced acoustic. At the price range I was looking for they had a few gaps for the regular line of guitars (Taylor 100, 200, then 600+, same with Martins where anything less than a OM-21 was sparse) but they said that I could try a few guitars, so I sat down and gave a few guitars a go. Then the sales pressure started and every few minutes I was interrupted with “which one do you like?” and “how you getting along?” I should have realised from the moment I walked in that the store had no other customers (the two later times I went back the store was also empty). I ended up settling on a Martin 000-15M, but the moment I arrived home I realised that I had settled under the sales pressure and whilst it was okay, it was not exactly what I wanted.

I brought it back in perfect as-new condition with stickers and hang tags still on after checking the company policy and emailing them for an exchange. All fine, and they inspected it, said it was as-new and put it back on the wall. So I sat down again to try and find the right guitar for my budget. After trying a few Eastmans and Bedells, I still couldn’t find the right guitar. “No worries, here’s your refund… in gift vouchers.” It turns out that their company policy on the web only applies to online sales where they are obliged to pay you a cash refund, but in store they have a different set of policies. It was like dealing with the guitar store version of Dixons. After arguing it a bit, I was left with no choice but to take £1.4k in gift vouchers. Looking online I found a few guitars that were around my price range and what I was looking for, but I thought that it would be pot luck whether it would be one I would bond with so, now reading the T&C’s, if it wasn’t I would be slapped with charges to return it. Realising that it was best that I buy a guitar having tried it first, I returned in store to try again and find something else. After trying a few guitars above my budget with Matons and Martins, I realised I was trapped with what they had in store and encouraged to go beyond what I wanted to spend. I was unsure what to do so I left again.

Having already argued the situation with them, I called the support number to try and reach their head office customer support. Turns out there is no such thing, there is only online support or in-store support because they have two separate T&C’s so I was redirected to the store manager and then the director who told me that they are not a “lending library” for musicians to come in and gig their gear, trash them and return them. They have been in the industry for X amount of years and seen everything. He regaled a story where a mother of a staff member overheard customers talking about how they were going to return gear after a gig so their policy was to stop people like me taking advantage of the company. I am left with the gift vouchers.

Musicman20

Oh no. That is appalling. I'd call them out on Twitter/Facebook etc as that can often stir things up. I've dealt with GuitarGuitar before and I doubt I would buy a guitar from them again. I'd buy an amp or pedal online, but only if it isn't display stock.

They have a habit of selling you 'new' items in display condition (e.g. possibly marked like tolex on a new amp) and whilst the items will get used eventually, it should be the customer/owner who makes the marks. Andertons tell you when an item is display. I've been in their Newcastle store a few times when I lived up there a while back and the place just had so many damaged amps and guitars with little scratches.

I recently asked them online about one of the Marshall Astoria amps, and said 'if this is a display item, can you at least guarantee they will put it in the original box with the right paperwork.' Their online chat basically said 'no'. Sale lost.

We are talking about an amp that despite the sale, costs around £2.2k.

I'd ask them for their complaints procedure and put it in writing asap.

They ALWAYS try to get out of online returns as well.

Every time I've been in one of their stores I felt pressured. I don't feel the staff are professional enough for the high end gear they sell. Almost like it's just metal dudes who want to be in a band but ended up in a guitar shop and look down on you.

Unfortunately, more so in the UK, the guitar stores tend to have a strange approach to customers who attend their shops. Not all of them, but most of them.

Hence why I buy online, always. By the way, I understand why you didn't want to do that. I guess the way around it is to go in, try it, then email and say which one you want and order online/reserve it and pay online.

Recent online guitar purchase with Amazon was flawless. Crazy.

Yeah, Peach Guitars are awesome. Not used Coda yet. Andertons always seem helpful. Peach sold me a lovely NOS 65 Jag for an amazing price a few years back and were very helpful with everything. Andertons never seem to try to put you off returning things.

Sporky

Musicman20 said:

Andertons never seem to try to put you off returning things.

They let me return something at 32 days (and without the outer shipping box) - admittedly as a trade-up, but the sum total of their quibbling was the chap tilting his head to one side for about 3 seconds, then saying "Yup".

Moe_Zambeek

Are there any shops that allow in-store goods be returned for a full refund for a non-faulty item?

Sporky

Yes - Andertons do.

Niallseroreilly

Had a similar issue in a music store close to me. I had bought a lot of high end gear from the store and had a good relationship with the staff.

Last year I bought a 68 deluxe reverb from them. It sounded brilliant in store. When I got it home the noise from the thing was unbearable. I checked online and people has said similar things about the amp.

I didn't want to have an issue with a new amp I forked out cash for. I did a bit of research and realised that the store did not have to give me a full refund, if I simply didn't want the amp.

I phoned the store and after a lot of agro from one of the staff members the store relented and gave me a refund.

However I was ready to blurt the line 'Not fit for purpose' as essentially the reverb and tremolo buzzed like hell.

I learned from that experience, that if you are unsure whether you're going to keep it or not... buy online.

In these circumstances I can understand the point of view of the store but the staff were quite rude during the process which I found unacceptable, I subsequently haven't shopped there since.

Mooster

What was extra frustrating is that they know my customer profile. “Yes, you have bought from us before, including a £3k Suhr. Yes, you have never returned any good before for a refund. No, we cannot provide you with a refund.” Also, their website does not make it explicit what is their online vs. in-store policies. And I wanted a guitar, not reading through T&Cs, arguing on the phone and labeled as an abuser of a company’s stock after I made sure I was fair with them on my side. The reason I say shop in Coda Music or Peach Guitars is they can spot the difference between people taking the pi$$ and regular returning customers who don’t want to go through legalese and left high and dry. So they have their guitar back, my money in the kitty, and I’m left with a high value gift card with 12 month expiry.

SonicScythe

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rlw

I'm sorry to say that the store was completely within it's rights, and there is no right to return goods simply because you don't want them.  Mail order/internet is different but it confuses many people.  Any shop that allows you to get a refund or exchange in store is giving you more options, not more rights.

Try it first, then buy it online to be sure, unless you know you can get a refund instore.

Winny_Pooh

Edited for clarity: I wonder how much of this is *stores* being troublesome or just being financially squeezed. (not Guitarguitar of course, healthy finances and £1.5M profit posted last year)

Mooster

rlw said:

I'm sorry to say that the store was completely within it's rights, and there is no right to return goods simply because you don't want them.  Mail order/internet is different but it confuses many people.  Any shop that allows you to get a refund or exchange in store is giving you more options, not more rights.

Sure, they are 100% within their rights, hence why I'm holding £1,399 in vouchers rather than a refund. It is their option whether to go beyond their rights for customer service and they are perfectly entitled not to. However other stores apply a human element and do go beyond their T&Cs to make sure customers are satisfied for repeat business. Online they are obliged to provide a cash refund because of "distance selling" laws so they have no choice but to comply.

grungebob

In general I've had good service from them in the past but last year I bought a new guitar, except it wasn't. The guitar was over a year old, had fingerprints all over it and general dust and grease. After trapping them in a lie via emails they eventually refunded me £150 on a £799 guitar so I was content to keep it. 

I wont use them again. 

Mooster

Winny_Pooh said:

I wonder how much of this is being troublesome or just being financially squeezed. (not Guitarguitar of course, healthy finances and £1.5M profit posted last year)

I guess I am being more troublesome than accepting the original sale and leaving it at that - mistakes and all. I've moved up from London to Brum recently and most of my dealings with guitar stores has been with Coda and they usually try and sort you out as best they can. Financially squeezed? Maybe, I wasn't looking for a Collings but I wasn't looking for a budget guitar, something in the middle of the road. But it just so happens that something in my budget is a gap in their stock. I'm holding their gift vouchers so I might settle for something that's not 100% what I want, or buy a load of strings and pedals, things that are not so variable between product to product, and drive down to Coda to buy an acoustic.

SonicScythe

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richardhomer

Sorry but I agree with some others - while your treatment might not be appropriate from a 'moral' point of view, you have no right to a refund when you buy in store. The idea being that you had the opportunity to evaluate your purchase, prior to buying - which you don't have when buying on line. 

As to 'pressure' at point of sale - they are in business to sell things - hence I'd expect them to try to sell me something....

Mooster

SonicScythe said:

Mooster said:

the moment I arrived home I realised that I had settled under the sales pressure and whilst it was okay, it was not exactly what I wanted.

Have a word with Citizen's Advice. Not to get your hopes up but I seem to recall reading something on their site a while back that said something about being unfairly pressured into making a purchase that you weren't sure about.

The other option would be to use the vouchers to buy a guitar (or two) from the pre-owned section that you 'might' like and then just sell it on for cash to get your money back that way. Just make sure they are a desirable model!

I had a thought that if their online T&Cs are full refund I could buy the right guitar online and if I don't like it, return it, because now it's an online purchase. But I think I would probably would be repaid in exactly how I paid - gift voucher credits and face a return charge. The other option is to sell the gift voucher on a gift voucher selling site, but I would most likely receive 50% of the value back. In the end of the day, I just want the right guitar, not a headache.

SonicScythe

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mr-mac

Take it as lesson learned... If I go in any shop for anything if I get the person/people annoying me every few seconds I just walk out and go somewhere else.  Customer service is important and a quick check in and I'll pop back in 20-30min but if you want anything just shout is good to me.  Pestering every two min is never gonna get someone to relax and bond with guitar.  Which is what you need them to do.

I'd go with buy some well priced desirable items s/h stock and sell them on then go somewhere else for the acoustic.  

Handy hint... Check if there is a date or time limit on the vouchers just in case

Brize

If you buy a guitar in store you've no right to a refund. I don't see that Guitar Guitar have done anything wrong. For what it's worth, GG Birmingham have always treated me very well.

Musicman20

I'm quite shocked they are doing so well as a company. I personally don't know many people who use them that often.

Mooster

richardhomer said:

Sorry but I agree with some others - while your treatment might not be appropriate from a 'moral' point of view, you have no right to a refund when you buy in store. The idea being that you had the opportunity to evaluate your purchase, prior to buying - which you don't have when buying on line. 

As to 'pressure' at point of sale - they are in business to sell things - hence I'd expect them to try to sell me something....

Brize said:

If you buy a guitar in store you've no right to a refund. I don't see that Guitar Guitar have done anything wrong. For what it's worth, GG Birmingham have always treated me very well.

The refund happened - I returned the guitar, they inspected it, accepted and refunded me the full amount - with the catch that it's in gift vouchers. The guitar is on sale hanging in their store so it's their possession, it's not like we didn't not exchange it back: guitar back to them, credit back to me, they just made sure that the credit can only be spent there.