Went looking for a new guitar, got legalese, T&Cs and a lot of gift vouchers

Voxman

@Mooster - sent you a PM. 

grungebob

Musicman20 said:

grungebob said:

In general I've had good service from them in the past but last year I bought a new guitar, except it wasn't. The guitar was over a year old, had fingerprints all over it and general dust and grease. After trapping them in a lie via emails they eventually refunded me £150 on a £799 guitar so I was content to keep it. 

I wont use them again. 

I don't know how they don't realise this is wrong?!

I guess they just play the numbers game, probably a high number of people wont say anything and they can get away with it?  For my experience they insisted it was new, that it'd only received a pre ship set up and that for all intents and purposes it was a brand new guitar. Except of course it had been in the shop for 17 months, had no hang tag, obviously been played and had the plastic removed from the pickguard, in fact the serial number on the headstock didnt even match that on the gig bag,  The bag even had the wrong accessories. 

RocknRollDave

Dave_Mc said:

RocknRollDave said:

I agree with this. Sucks that you're not happy with the guitar you purchased, but the store has given you an option that goes above and beyond their legal obligations

I'm not sure that's strictly true. Once a store says it has a policy which goes above and beyond what it legally has to offer, it legally has to abide by that policy.

I agree. But the store HAS abided by its own policy here, has it not?! I believe they have different terms and conditions available for all to see for both online and in-store purchases.
I don't believe the store should be castigated for having a different policy for in-store purchases. The online regulations are there because one can't (usually) see an item in the flesh before making an online purchase. The OP WAS able to test drive the guitar in-store, so this protection isn't needed.
As I say, I'm not unsympathetic with the OP, but it seems to be buyer's remorse and I don't see why the store ought to suffer adversly for this.


EDIT: HOWEVER, I DO agree with commnents made above about playing the long game as a retailer. A £1400 sale is likely to be from someone who will be a repeat customer. The retailer's stance may have cost them a fair bit more than £1400 over time.

MattBanshee

I find that the best way of dealing with attempted sales pressure is, upon the second encroachment by a sales assistant, rudely tell them to do one and leave you alone.

Musicman20

I do feel this is quite a 'UK' issue...I find most guitar stores (NOT all) have a bit of a chip on their shoulder.

The USA stores I've personally visited have been great. Thomanns online service is great.

When I was younger I had all sorts of bizarre comments made. They thought I had no money. Now I try walk in with my Court suit on and see the reaction. Totally different.

One funny example was at Electro Music some years back. Went there after an appointment (not in my home town) 30 mins before they shut.

'Can I try a Markbass amp?'

Bass guy - 'Are you actually going to buy one?' and laughs and smirks.

This is coming from a guy who had experienced me buying a few thousand pounds worth of bass gear and used their guitar section before.

I was about 27 at the time. Just because I looked young does not mean I have to be insulted or that I have no money.

Never shopped with them again.

I have had great service from some stores, but the bad far outweighs the good. An old story from Leeds PMT always springs to mind....I had to make a serious complaint about that as they tried to fob me off with a 'new' (obviously ex demo as scratched) bass....the guy was desperate for a sale. I complained to Fender it was that bad.

Never shopped with them again. I cannot abide liars. I work hard for my money and I cannot make a career by doing my best to sell whatever cack is available.

I hope the OP gets this sorted.

Gadget

@Mooster ; Note that the vouchers (unlike cash!) are only valid for 12 months.

paulnb57

I had a similar experience to @Musicman20 when buying a new car a few years back, then as now our second car is 25 year old Land Rover Defender.....we rock up at the local Toyota dealership looking to buy a supermini type small car for she who lives by the sink, only to be met with smirking and derision from the salesman.
I went and paid cash for a new Fiat 500 Convertible for the old trout, at the local Fiat emporium, that were most welcoming.....I woukd never set foot in Toyota again and have related the tale to anyone who will listen......

Mooster

Hi all, I'm glad I raised this thread and got all kinds of diverse responses. I think one poster said it best: my shock and dismay was primarily due to my previous experience in other stores and thinking all stores work this way. Caveat emptor!

For those that think GG is wrong, I don't think that way about them. They are not the most customer focused and I get that now. If you're a bigger seller and work more on the online sales side, then it's a box 'em and ship 'em numbers game and in return you might have more exposure to the kind of customer that abuses the system so you take that experience and apply it to all customers where possible. As one poster made clear, they are profitable and ongoing. But so too are stores that take a different approach. That's fine, as customers our choice is who we choose to take our business to. Next time: a journey to Stevenage or Colchester is worth my time even if another company's store is 15 minutes away from work.

As for this time, I've taken a more positive approach out of this. I've used the voucher code to order an acoustic online knowing their T&Cs on distance selling laws. I would never promote nor encourage what Steve or Mike introduced me to: these nefarious "lending library" practices. However, theoretically speaking, if I were to say, not bond with the guitar over 7 days in the comfort of my living room with zero sales pressure, I can return it for another guitar on my radar - no quibbles, no rows on the phone. I'm feeling better already.

McSwaggerty

Guitar Guitar are Sly.

When I asked if they could transfer a guitar from one branch to another nearer to me, they told me this would be no problem, but it would cost me a fully refundable deposit of a 1/3rd of the price of the guitar.

What they purposely don't tell you, they refund the deposit in gift vouchers.

Very Sleekit.!

McSwaggerty

BTW - That was for an £1800 guitar....so even if you don't buy it because you thought it sounded a bit duff .....you would get £600 in gift vouchers and they get the duff guitar transferred to another branch for free- hoping somebody in another location is daft enough to buy it.

As I say....Sleekit !

Mooster

Do you know how much it costs them to transfer a guitar from store to store? £6.

Musicman20

 I was once told in another store in Newcastle that as I wanted to try out a bass, they had to order it in (the bass was in stock in the UK with the dealers)....it would cost them delivery charges. So, they basically said I had to pay for their admin costs and delivery. It arrived with the pickup rattling and it turns out it was faulty..and they still wanted the money!

usedtobe

Musicman20 said:

I do feel this is quite a 'UK' issue...I find most guitar stores (NOT all) have a bit of a chip on their shoulder.

The USA stores I've personally visited have been great. Thomanns online service is great.

When I was younger I had all sorts of bizarre comments made. They thought I had no money. Now I try walk in with my Court suit on and see the reaction. Totally different.

One funny example was at Electro Music some years back. Went there after an appointment (not in my home town) 30 mins before they shut.

'Can I try a Markbass amp?'

Bass guy - 'Are you actually going to buy one?' and laughs and smirks.

This is coming from a guy who had experienced me buying a few thousand pounds worth of bass gear and used their guitar section before.

I was about 27 at the time. Just because I looked young does not mean I have to be insulted or that I have no money.

Never shopped with them again.

I have had great service from some stores, but the bad far outweighs the good. An old story from Leeds PMT always springs to mind....I had to make a serious complaint about that as they tried to fob me off with a 'new' (obviously ex demo as scratched) bass....the guy was desperate for a sale. I complained to Fender it was that bad.

Never shopped with them again. I cannot abide liars. I work hard for my money and I cannot make a career by doing my best to sell whatever cack is available.

I hope the OP gets this sorted.

Mate of mine, when he was living in that London, enquired about some particular mini humbuckers, I think it was, for his Gibson (70's?) sg, and was told, "They're not cheap, you know!"

At a gig, once in Sheffield, the singer told us about the guitarist being refused when he asked to try a guitar in wizard guitars. Was told he had to buy it first!? This guys a fairly well known and respected musician and writer..

wtf!?

fandango

McSwaggerty said:

Guitar Guitar are Sly.

When I asked if they could transfer a guitar from one branch to another nearer to me, they told me this would be no problem, but it would cost me a fully refundable deposit of a 1/3rd of the price of the guitar.

What they purposely don't tell you, they refund the deposit in gift vouchers.

Very Sleekit.!

Am always awake to the scam of paying for anything up front. If it was a special order, fair enough. But it's not like the guitar in question wasn't already on their books.

GG recently pulled this 'deposit' stunt with me when I went in looking at some PRS guitars. They didn't have one in branch and would need to pull it in from another store. I think they wanted £300.... 30% ... on a £900 guitar. I politely declined.

timmysoft

I won't use GuitarGuitar.
 After returning a few items that were sold as "new" they then said that my card will be refused if i try to buy online again. These items were not new, not in original packaging and were thick with dust.

 In store i found two amps that i was interested in, both with damage that i was told "wouldn't be repaired instore", but they could maybe knock a few quid off to compensate (not enough to even make most techs bench fee though). 

 They're a terrible company and it seems they're very good at upsetting customers.

GuitarZero

I've used GG a number of times both for online purchases and in-store, but I always have a couple of provisos.  If I buy sight unseen then I'll only buy something they need to order in.  I've seen some of their guitars in-store and they aren't always well looked after.  The only other time I buy from them is if I actually go to the shop and try before I buy, this way I can see the condition of the guitar myself.  I did on one occasion ask them if they've got a boxed one out the back when a Sheraton I was looking at was a bit beaten up.  They had no issue with looking and brought me another one out un-boxed it and let me play it for as long as I wanted with no hassle (generally they leave me to get on with things without looking over my shoulder or being pushy).  I bought the Sheraton from them in the end as it was a decent little player.

I've bought 4 guitars from GG in Birmingham (plus two online) and have always had great service and they are very good for price matching other retailers.  I'm happy to say that I've never had to return anything to them so I haven't experienced that side of their service.  I know many have expressed a concern about their return policies in the past.

@Mooster - I live in Gloucester and if you want to build a relationship with a very good guitar store, get yourself to World Guitars (if you haven't already).  I come to Brum a fair bit to look at guitars and it's about an hour from me, but WG are my local and always look there first unless I'm after something specific that they don't stock.  They are aimed mostly at the higher end market but they have some great used stuff.  Smiffy is a decent guy and always looks after people.  You'll always get coffee, a few laughs and some decent conversation.

Mooster

GuitarZero said:

@Mooster - I live in Gloucester and if you want to build a relationship with a very good guitar store, get yourself to World Guitars (if you haven't already).  I come to Brum a fair bit to look at guitars and it's about an hour from me, but WG are my local and always look there first unless I'm after something specific that they don't stock.  They are aimed mostly at the higher end market but they have some great used stuff.  Smiffy is a decent guy and always looks after people.  You'll always get coffee, a few laughs and some decent conversation.

I've never been in WG but my best mate has and says it's amazing. I've whiled away a few idle hours watching EG vids when they were more active and I was shocked like many people when Jeff passed away.

Dave_Mc

RocknRollDave said:

Dave_Mc said:

RocknRollDave said:

I agree with this. Sucks that you're not happy with the guitar you purchased, but the store has given you an option that goes above and beyond their legal obligations

I'm not sure that's strictly true. Once a store says it has a policy which goes above and beyond what it legally has to offer, it legally has to abide by that policy.

(a) I agree. But the store HAS abided by its own policy here, has it not?! I believe they have different terms and conditions available for all to see for both online and in-store purchases.
I don't believe the store should be castigated for having a different policy for in-store purchases. The online regulations are there because one can't (usually) see an item in the flesh before making an online purchase. The OP WAS able to test drive the guitar in-store, so this protection isn't needed.
As I say, I'm not unsympathetic with the OP, but it seems to be buyer's remorse and I don't see why the store ought to suffer adversly for this.


(b) EDIT: HOWEVER, I DO agree with commnents made above about playing the long game as a retailer. A £1400 sale is likely to be from someone who will be a repeat customer. The retailer's stance may have cost them a fair bit more than £1400 over time.

(a) I'm not sure- @Mooster just said it wasn't clear on the website that they had different T&Cs for in-store versus online/mail order purchases and I took him at his word. If they did make it clear that it was different, then I agree with you.

That being said, I think GuitarGuitar has a bit of a rep for sending out ex-demo stuff as new, etc.- so IMO that has to be taken into account as well. GG (from what I've read on here, I have no personal experience with shopping online with them) hasn't exactly been the most upright store ever, either, at times. In addition to their accusing @Mooster of treating them like a lending library, which (again, going by what he said) he absolutely did not, he was a repeat customer for some pretty expensive kit.

(b) Definitely.

@McSwaggerty: Wow, as you say, that does sound a bit off.

Mooster

Dave_Mc said:

RocknRollDave said:

Dave_Mc said:

RocknRollDave said:

I agree with this. Sucks that you're not happy with the guitar you purchased, but the store has given you an option that goes above and beyond their legal obligations

I'm not sure that's strictly true. Once a store says it has a policy which goes above and beyond what it legally has to offer, it legally has to abide by that policy.

(a) I agree. But the store HAS abided by its own policy here, has it not?! I believe they have different terms and conditions available for all to see for both online and in-store purchases.
I don't believe the store should be castigated for having a different policy for in-store purchases. The online regulations are there because one can't (usually) see an item in the flesh before making an online purchase. The OP WAS able to test drive the guitar in-store, so this protection isn't needed.
As I say, I'm not unsympathetic with the OP, but it seems to be buyer's remorse and I don't see why the store ought to suffer adversly for this.


(b) EDIT: HOWEVER, I DO agree with commnents made above about playing the long game as a retailer. A £1400 sale is likely to be from someone who will be a repeat customer. The retailer's stance may have cost them a fair bit more than £1400 over time.

(a) I'm not sure- @Mooster just said it wasn't clear on the website that they had different T&Cs for in-store versus online/mail order purchases and I took him at his word. If they did make it clear that it was different, then I agree with you.

That being said, I think GuitarGuitar has a bit of a rep for sending out ex-demo stuff as new, etc.- so IMO that has to be taken into account as well. GG (from what I've read on here, I have no personal experience with shopping online with them) hasn't exactly been the most upright store ever, either, at times. In addition to their accusing @Mooster of treating them like a lending library, which (again, going by what he said) he absolutely did not, he was a repeat customer for some pretty expensive kit.

(b) Definitely.

@McSwaggerty: Wow, as you say, that does sound a bit off.

To be clear and fair to GG, they have honored their policy so there is no bad business practice here. As I said earlier, I was more surprised at their policy because I used to shop elsewhere and their policy was the same between online / physical sales. The point is to bear this in mind if you do business with them.

As for the confusion on T&Cs, the only place to read their T&Cs on their website. But their T&Cs on their website is only for their online sales. So there is no-where to read their T&Cs for in-store sales, I only understood this via talking to them and them retorting "ah, but that's just for online sales you see..." Yes, within the small text it is outlined but you have to study it like a hawk.

To cut a long story short, I've shopped with Coda for almost 7 years and I have no clue what their T&C policies are. I do know that if I have an issue I can talk to Doug and he can make a call there and then.

Musicman20

Annoyingly, they have something on pre-order that I want. Thing is, they were out of stock and unable to be ordered, but now one is coming in. I've asked if it is a customer return and they've said no.

Part of me thinks it isn't worth the hassle....just in case it is brand new.