A question for the amp technicians here..

Beexter

OK, so I have an Orange Rocker 30 (the original discontinued EL34 version)  and a Mesa Express 5 25+..The Mesa has an effects loop whereas the Orange doesn't BUT.... according to Orange,  the Natural channel is incapable of preamp overdrive - there's no tone stack and it just routes the signal straight to the power amp.
If that's the case,(or is it a bit of marketing puff from Orange?) wouldn't running an amp modeller (eg AX8) through the natural channel be the same principle as plugging into the effects loop on the Mesa?
Obviously,  I'd run through a cab and disable cab sims on the modeller... 

ChrisCox1994

I would guess it would still go through the preamp, just not through a tone stack, like any non-master volume amp but with a "tone bypass" feature. 

If you plug directly into the FX return the signal is usually pretty weak, hence pedals designed to be preamps have a high output level to drive enough signal into the power amp (kingsley etc) 

Although I could be WAY off. 

ICBM

Beexter said:

OK, so I have an Orange Rocker 30 (the original discontinued EL34 version)  and a Mesa Express 5 25+..The Mesa has an effects loop whereas the Orange doesn't BUT.... according to Orange,  the Natural channel is incapable of preamp overdrive - there's no tone stack and it just routes the signal straight to the power amp.
If that's the case,(or is it a bit of marketing puff from Orange?) wouldn't running an amp modeller (eg AX8) through the natural channel be the same principle as plugging into the effects loop on the Mesa?

Yes.

It's not marketing puff, that describes pretty much how it works. There is just one gain stage for the normal channel so it will be incapable of overdriving itself - although you can still overdrive the whole amp, if you turn it up full.

I haven't tried one with a modeller but I would expect it to work quite well - it does with heavy fuzz/distortion pedals that otherwise sound too compressed and farty through the overdrive channel.

Beexter

Cheers @ICBM,  I'm not technically able so it's good to get my thinking confirmed!
I read something recently about another Orange amp (one of their bass amps I think) where they talked about having the shortest,  most direct path from input to output to achieve the purest tone. It's this simplicity that I love about the Rocker and it really does let the character and tone of different guitars shine through. It's this ability that makes me think it would work well with a modeller.
I'm not a Corksniffer but I do think the EL34's contribute a bit more oomph compared to the EL84's in the latest versions. 

ICBM

Beexter said:

I'm not a Corksniffer but I do think the EL34's contribute a bit more oomph compared to the EL84's in the latest versions. 

I agree, and I normally tell everyone the valve type doesn't make much difference . But it does make some, and I think it's exactly that which is responsible for the very chunky, clear sound it has compared to Orange's other 30W amps - cathode-biased EL34 amps are quite rare. The other amps all sound a bit compressed and slightly muddy by comparison. I don't even like the original Rockerverb with four 6V6s as much as the Rocker, and I'm normally a reverb fan.

The only question over whether the Rocker will work well with a modeller is if the EQ on the Natural channel - it doesn't have a tone stack, but it will have some inherent voicing - is right for it. No way of knowing without trying, but I would expect it to be OK.

Bridgehouse

Lol, you need to change this thread to "a question for ICBM"

Sassafras

Bridgehouse said:

Lol, you need to change this thread to "a question for ICBM"

No point.
He's all seeing and ever present, fortunately.

Bridgehouse

Sassafras said:

Bridgehouse said:

Lol, you need to change this thread to "a question for ICBM"

No point.
He's all seeing and ever present, fortunately.

Good point. I hope he enjoyed the dump I did earlier too then...

professorben

Bridgehouse said:

Sassafras said:

Bridgehouse said:

Lol, you need to change this thread to "a question for ICBM"

No point.
He's all seeing and ever present, fortunately.

Good point. I hope he enjoyed the dump I did earlier too then...

We all did. 

Although it was touch and go for a bit there mate, may I suggest more roughage? 

DartmoorHedgehog

I use the natural channel of my R30 as a "clean" channel, but at band volume it's quite a "hairy" clean and will break up pretty easily with hard picking/strumming (that's at about 12 to 1 o'clock on the volume).  Fantastic sound IMO, but whether it's a good substitute for a totally clean power amp I'm not sure.  If you were miked up and running the amp volume a bit lower it may stay clean enough to be a proper "clean amp" for the modeller.