'Direct mounted' pick-ups - good, bad, indifferent?

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VoxmanVoxman Frets: 4718
I've noticed that some guitars are advertised as having 'direct mounted' p/ups whereby these are screwed straight into the guitar body rather than using eg mounting rings.  Certain guitars/models eg Chapman, ESP, Wolfgang mount the p/ups in this way.

Allegedly pick-ups mounted in this fashion are supposed to be less sensitive to height adjustment changes thus making 'sweet spots' easier to find, and give a fuller more resonant tone.  The cynic in me is wondering if this is merely a cheaper way to mount pick-ups and if there's an element of marketing 'spin' here to turn a 'negative' into a 'positive'. 

What are your thoughts guys? 
I started out with nothing..... but I've still got most of it left (Seasick Steve)
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Comments

  • stickyfiddlestickyfiddle Frets: 26753
    I'm sure it changes the way the pickup vibrates compared with one mounted on a ring or a guard, but I see no reason for the "sweet spot" thing - surely that's a function of magnetic fields, which won't change between the two cases.
    The Assumptions - UAE party band for all your rock & soul desires
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  • WezVWezV Frets: 16547
    edited April 2017
    You will get a lot more of the bodies vibration fed into the pickup. Depending on wood it can sound richer, depending on the pickup it can be more microphonic.....  if you chuck a load of foam under there it's mainly lost again.  On true direct mount the pickup is solidly fixed to the body.... and that's often too much for many.


    no mojo here, just string vibration and electromagnetism... a vibrating pickup will provide a different signal to a static one.  A direct mount pickup will vibrate more than a spring/plastic mounted one
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  • ricorico Frets: 1220
    I think it looks 'unfinished'. Quite ugly in my opinion. 
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  • richardhomerrichardhomer Frets: 24793
    edited April 2017
    The most well-known 'direct-mount' pick-up is the neck pick-up on a vintage-style Tele. It's not possible to isolate all variables - but the modern arrangement (where the pick-up is suspended from the scratch plate) sounds softer to my ears.

    I'm prepared to believe there is some tonal difference - but I wouldn't see it as a 'selling point' as such.
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  • VoxmanVoxman Frets: 4718
    rico said:
    I think it looks 'unfinished'. Quite ugly in my opinion. 
    Yup, that was my thought too. ;)
    I started out with nothing..... but I've still got most of it left (Seasick Steve)
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  • Jack_Jack_ Frets: 3175
    I much prefer the look, it's a lot cleaner in my eyes.
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  • ICBMICBM Frets: 71960
    The most well-known 'direct-mount' pick-up is the neck pick-up on a vintage-style Tele. It's not possible to isolate all variables - but the modern arrangement (where the pick-up is suspended from the scratch plate) sounds softer to my ears.
    Agreed. And the pickup on a Les Paul Junior - which doesn't even have springs, it's hard-mounted.

    But as you say, there are other variables - the Junior sounds more aggressive than the bridge pickup on a Special, but the Special has the magnetic damping of the neck pickup and an altered neck joint with the pickup rout going through the tenon.

    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski

    "Just because I don't care, doesn't mean I don't understand." - Homer Simpson

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  • DanielsguitarsDanielsguitars Frets: 3261
    tFB Trader
    I did direct mount pickups on a strat style mostly because I don't want to cover up a nice piece of wood with a bloody great scratch plate

    I also think it suited my build

    Couldn't tell you if it sounds better or different, it was a bit more messing around getting the heights for the pickups to balance as this was the first one I'd done like that, I'd do another like it no problem
    www.danielsguitars.co.uk
    (formerly customkits)
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  • Dave_McDave_Mc Frets: 2328
    The few I've tried/owned always felt a bit microphonic to me, as @WezV said.
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  • stonevibestonevibe Frets: 7083
    I like direct mounted pickups and have  a few guitars which have them. Wouldn't say it looks 'unfinished' and to be honest some guitars looks fugly with pickup rings or pickguards anyway.

    My Peavey Wolfgang Special has direct mount humbuckers and it sounds really good for rock stuff, lots of sustain and plenty of 'sweet spots' on the guitar as a whole.

    Win a Cort G250 SE Guitar in our Guitar Bomb Free UK Giveaway 


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  • Dave_VaderDave_Vader Frets: 359
    Has anyone mentioned P90s yet?

    Ok.

    P90s
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  • ESBlondeESBlonde Frets: 3576
    There are cork sniffers on the les Paul forum that claim they can hear the difference when putting plastic tube over (or replacing) the pickup mounting springs.

    As usual you can debate this until the cows come home, but any appreciable distortion makes it a moot point and who can tell once the band start thrashing away beside you! P90s are typically direct mount.
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  • RockerRocker Frets: 4947
    My Anderson has the pickups mounted on the guitar body. There might be foam between the guitar and the pickup plate, TBH I never checked. No need to, it is a great playing and sounding guitar..
    Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. [Albert Einstein]

    Nil Satis Nisi Optimum

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  • Dave_McDave_Mc Frets: 2328
    ESBlonde said:
    There are cork sniffers on the les Paul forum that claim they can hear the difference when putting plastic tube over (or replacing) the pickup mounting springs.

    As usual you can debate this until the cows come home, but any appreciable distortion makes it a moot point and who can tell once the band start thrashing away beside you! P90s are typically direct mount.
    I agree about the tone thing, but I'd say that high gain would actually likely accentuate the microphonics of direct-mounting.
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  • Dave_VaderDave_Vader Frets: 359
    If I remember correctly, Brian May direct mounted the pickups on the red special to increase the feedback he could get.
    I may be wrong.
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  • Danny1969Danny1969 Frets: 10357
    EVH.s uses direct mounted PU's ...it does make a difference I think, I prefer it myself 
    www.2020studios.co.uk 
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  • HaychHaych Frets: 5596
    stonevibe said:
    I like direct mounted pickups and have  a few guitars which have them. Wouldn't say it looks 'unfinished' and to be honest some guitars looks fugly with pickup rings or pickguards anyway.
    Would have to agree, for some reason I find the direct mount pups on a Charvel Pro Mod/San Dimas thingy much more attractive than when they use pickup rings.  Wish I hadn't sold mine now!

    There is no 'H' in Aych, you know that don't you? ~ Wife

    Turns out there is an H in Haych! ~ Sporky

    Bit of trading feedback here.

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  • Dave_McDave_Mc Frets: 2328
    Danny1969 said:
    EVH.s uses direct mounted PU's ...it does make a difference I think, I prefer it myself 
    I think direct mounting EVH to my guitar would make a bigger difference :D

    :'(
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  • OilCityPickupsOilCityPickups Frets: 9986
    tFB Trader
    My own favorite method to body/direct mount is to use silicone tube over the screws, then a tiny foam pad if I need to change the tilt angle of the pickup.  
    Professional pickup winder, horse-testpilot and recovering Chocolate Hobnob addict.
    Formerly TheGuitarWeasel ... Oil City Pickups  ... Oil City Blog 7 String.org profile and message  

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  • ElwoodElwood Frets: 452
    edited April 2017
    Has anyone made a plate that screws into body and the pickup attaches to?

    Think of it as a flat metal bar with 4 screw holes in a line. The two middle ones are counter sunk and used to attach the bar into the body. The outer two are treaded and allow you to bolt the pickup in place (similar to the 9D connectors used on Serial cables). You could use a block of wood or coins to shim the pickup to the correct height.

    No too bothered about tonal effects. It would just be a more satisfying mounting method. 

    It would also be better for people that regularly swap pups.

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