Modelling Amp comparison 2017

guitarfishbay

Drew feel free to add my link (and I guess any others) to your first post.  Might make it easier to navigate the thread.

Drew_TNBD

guitarfishbay said:

Drew feel free to add my link (and I guess any others) to your first post.  Might make it easier to navigate the thread.

Done!

guitarfishbay

Cool. I'll try to add a couple more amps tomorrow afternoon. I'll do the other 5150 red (the 6505+/5150 II) and I'll see what I can get out of some Mark/Recto stuff If I have time.

Roland

Watching this thread with interest

Sporky

I assume confirmation bias was rampant, but I thought the Helix sounded best, load box with IR next best. The Helix had less fizz and much more "grunt".

Laptop to AKG272HDs. I'll give them another go with the soundbar and the good headphones tomorrow.

guitarfishbay

Interesting. Which Helix model sounded best to you in particular @Sporky or was it a general thing?

Bare in mind Drew picked the base tone + IR and there's no post EQ - hence why it has 'fizz' and why most of the tones would too as they're set up to be in the ballpark of the amp + IR within the limitations of the model. It's a good starting tone but typically there would be post EQ applied. Amps do have fizz under high gain and typically it's more useful to record a tone with slightly too much fizz/brightness than one that's slightly too dull/soft sounding as it's easier to take fizz out than try and put top end crunch/sparkle back in... if that makes sense. Basically I think Drew did a good job on the base tone.

I'm not going to post my observations until I've completed a couple more reamps. I do feel I am pretty pragmatic though and not especially swayed by what I own, but I don't expect anyone to believe that.

I'm not sure if this test has either saved me and @Drew_TNBD a load of money or the total opposite though lol.

Drew_TNBD

Sporky said:

I assume confirmation bias was rampant, but I thought the Helix sounded best, load box with IR next best. The Helix had less fizz and much more "grunt".

Laptop to AKG272HDs. I'll give them another go with the soundbar and the good headphones tomorrow.

Interesting. Which Helix clip??

Drew_TNBD

guitarfishbay said:

Interesting. Which Helix model sounded best to you in particular @Sporky or was it a general thing?

Bare in mind Drew picked the base tone + IR and there's no post EQ - hence why it has 'fizz' and why most of the tones would too as they're set up to be in the ballpark of the amp + IR within the limitations of the model. It's a good starting tone but typically there would be post EQ applied. Amps do have fizz under high gain and typically it's more useful to record a tone with slightly too much fizz/brightness than one that's slightly too dull/soft sounding as it's easier to take fizz out than try and put top end crunch/sparkle back in... if that makes sense. 

I'm not going to post my observations until I've completed a couple more reamps. I do feel I am pretty pragmatic though and not especially swayed by what I own, but I don't expect anyone to believe that.

I'm not sure if this test has either saved me and @Drew_TNBD a load of money or the total opposite though lol.

Yeah me too. I don't expect people to believe it either, but I am *always* looking for the best sound - regardless of which kit does it.

Sporky

Drew_TNBD said:

Sporky said:

I assume confirmation bias was rampant, but I thought the Helix sounded best, load box with IR next best. The Helix had less fizz and much more "grunt".

Laptop to AKG272HDs. I'll give them another go with the soundbar and the good headphones tomorrow.

Interesting. Which Helix clip??

Ah, sorry, should have been more specific.. Panama was my favourite by a margin. Then Solo for the chuggy, but Archetype for the ringing chords - not much margin though.

I could hear a difference between the SM and IR clips for the other, but didn't have a preference between the two types.

Actually, scratch that, I'm relistening as I go, and the SM is definitely better to my ears for the ringing chords than the load box with IR. Less fizz, more crunch, for want of better terms.

At this point I'm not hearing a significant difference between the red and blue channels. Off to get the better headphones.

Sporky

Interesting, Different results with the Shures. I still like Panama best of the Helix sounds, but now Solo is much better thans Solo, which has an odd fizzy overlay.

Still prefer SM to IR but the gap is much narrower, and I think I can hear more difference between red and blue channels.

guitarfishbay

Did you listen to the Axe FX clips as well? Drew you can further level match and put them in your folder if that's easier for people

digitalscream

OK, the wife's at work tomorrow morning, so I'll have a look for the matching transformer and see if I can rustle something up.

If I can get it to work, I'll have three goes at it - once with preamp only, once with the preamp into the JCA22H's power section and once into the JCA50H's tone stack and power section. All will be with the freebie OwnHammer IRs.

Could be interesting

guitarfishbay

Cool.

If you also upload a version with no IR either me or Drew could apply the same IR as picked for the test. Wouldn't quite be fair as it would've been dialled in with another IR but it'd reduce a variable for listening out for character anyway 

digitalscream

Yep, that's easy enough. Or one of you could send me the IR you were using so I can dial it in right from the start

guitarfishbay

Well the IR is from this pack.

http://www.ownhammer.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=172&products_id=382


I've found it's pretty tough to copy the dynamic response + saturation character of that amp plus loadbox clip, which Drew told me was the one to use as the benchmark since we could both use the same IR. It's possible to get near either the mutes (which I know Drew's interested in) or the chords, but getting both to be similar to the amp is tough on either modeller it seems. It may be because neither Axe FX 2 or Helix has a 50 watt EVH model, or maybe the loadbox is doing something a bit different. Or possibly it's just a difference in how all these setups handle dynamics. It isn't a judgement on which is better, just acknowledging a difference in this scenario 

As a side note to Drew - maybe stick the no IR files in their own folder in the streaming folder to tidy it up? I don't think anyone is going to stream the no IR files anyway. 

Sporky

guitarfishbay said:

Did you listen to the Axe FX clips as well? Drew you can further level match and put them in your folder if that's easier for people

Not yet. I got confused after the first link!

guitarfishbay

Sporky said:

guitarfishbay said:

Did you listen to the Axe FX clips as well? Drew you can further level match and put them in your folder if that's easier for people

Not yet. I got confused after the first link!

Lol yeah I didn't expect Drew to post up his clips so fast so I was well behind in posting mine.

I think the fairest and most useful thing would be for Drew to level match other people's reamps and stick them all in the same folder, if he has the available storage. And of course if he can be bothered to do that!

I figure most people would be streaming and you can't be in two separate Dropbox folders on an iPad, (at least I can't with the app on mine) which makes listening to files in succession a bit clunky having to go get alternate links. It's a non issue on desktop.

celentium

I can reamp with Eleven Rack patches for comparison purposes if there's any interest? 

I know it's seen as an obsolete unit nowadays but it may be interesting seeing how modeling has progressed.

guitarfishbay

Sure, go for it. I'd be interested to hear it

celentium

Cool I'll have a go. It's given me something to do this morning at least