EQing for Piezo quack

TimmyO

What's the received wisdom/starting points for EQing a Piezo ? There's a 3 band parametric on Helix, I've managed to improve it but any top tips gratefully received

robinbowes

Use an IR.

TimmyO

robinbowes said:

Use an IR.

I may well - are 3Sigma Audio the only folk selling them? 

robinbowes

Try this thread:

http://line6.com/support/topic/16054-where-to-get-acoustic-irs/

I can't validate the URLs as google drive is blocked in my workplace.

I used the Taylor 414 with Neumann U87 - sounds pretty good.

R.

TimmyO

OK

1. I'd still like to know about EQing for when I don't have the Helix with me - so any info still gratefully received ta

2. I purchased an Impulse Response from 3Sigma (the Hummingbird one) - Each folder comes with 15 files, which are made up of 3 different levels of bass taming/neutral/boost for each of 5 sounds (I presume different 5 mics or micing techniques?) 

And there are folders of this for each of Piezo, Soundhole, and Magnetic sources.

Well blow me down - an instant usable sound. 

I Played a short strummed loop into Helix, left that playing and cycled through the various IRs finding the ones that seemed most nice to me. Every now and then I switched the IR processing off and got the full Piezo *thing* back - amazing how much of a difference it makes. 

I've not tried hooking Helix up for recording yet but I will to share some samples if anyone is interested.

robinbowes

This technique works for electric guitars too, ie. you can make an electric sound like an acoustic, thus obviating the need to use an acoustic live.

Fantastic!

R.

Danji

I've not tried hooking Helix up for recording yet but I will to share some samples if anyone is interested.

Please, if that's the sample of the acoustic, I'd be really interested

AliGorie

TimmyO said:

What's the received wisdom/starting points for EQing a Piezo ? There's a 3 band parametric on Helix, I've managed to improve it but any top tips gratefully received

get a better pu -
K&K Mini - or I've been meaning to try one of these - pos mixing with internal mic + outboard preamp.
Just a thought

Lewy

AliGorie said:

TimmyO said:

What's the received wisdom/starting points for EQing a Piezo ? There's a 3 band parametric on Helix, I've managed to improve it but any top tips gratefully received

get a better pu -
K&K Mini - or I've been meaning to try one of these - pos mixing with internal mic + outboard preamp.
Just a thought

I would ordinarily concur with this but not in this case .... if you're going to be using the pickup signal to drive Impulse Responses or an Aura pedal - or anything that adds simulated resonance to the sound, then an undersaddle
piezo is what you need.

Let me just swallow the little bit of sick that came up as I typed that....

AliGorie

Lewy said:

AliGorie said:

TimmyO said:

What's the received wisdom/starting points for EQing a Piezo ? There's a 3 band parametric on Helix, I've managed to improve it but any top tips gratefully received

get a better pu -
K&K Mini - or I've been meaning to try one of these - pos mixing with internal mic + outboard preamp.
Just a thought

I would ordinarily concur with this but not in this case .... if you're going to be using the pickup signal to drive Impulse Responses or an Aura pedal - or anything that adds simulated resonance to the sound, then an undersaddle
piezo is what you need.

Let me just swallow the little bit of sick that came up as I typed that....

hu ??
just looked up the Hell x thingy - wtf - overkill for an acoustic - if ya want an approximation of a reasonable acoustic sound it's gotta come from the 'transducer' and piezo just wont do - quack quack.
e.g. I've got a lovely little studio valve combo - I've NEVER thought of using it to amplify my acoustics - it's just not for that.
decent p/u 'n preamp - sorted

TimmyO

I guess I'll just go Google it - it was just something that interested me as useful practical knowledge :-) 

re the Helix, Lewy is aware that I happen to own one. I'd only been using it for electric but it has a bunch of EQ, compression and reverb options in it, can host IRs , and can process vocal and guitar in parallel. If I had an acoustic gig right now (ha) I'd probably use it as it's what I have got. 

As it turns out hosting the 3Sigma IR works really well, but I'd still be interested in knowing about taming piezo frequencies as useful, relevant 'guitarist knowledge'

My Martin has an Anthem SL in it, and that's pretty good. 

Lewy

Scroll down to "Issue 2" here....

https://www.premierguitar.com/articles/Acoustic_EQ_for_Stage_Part_5_EQing_at_Last

TimmyO

Lewy said:

Scroll down to "Issue 2" here....

https://www.premierguitar.com/articles/Acoustic_EQ_for_Stage_Part_5_EQing_at_Last

Thanking you :- )

Lewy

TimmyO said:

Lewy said:

Scroll down to "Issue 2" here....

https://www.premierguitar.com/articles/Acoustic_EQ_for_Stage_Part_5_EQing_at_Last

Thanking you :- )

No worries. Does the helix have a multi band compressor? You should experiment with squashing the offending frequencies as opposed to just dialing them out.

TimmyO

Lewy said:

TimmyO said:

Lewy said:

Scroll down to "Issue 2" here....

https://www.premierguitar.com/articles/Acoustic_EQ_for_Stage_Part_5_EQing_at_Last

Thanking you :- )

No worries. Does the helix have a multi band compressor? You should experiment with squashing the offending frequencies as opposed to just dialing them out.

ooh yes, that's a good idea, the most recent firmware added a 3-band compressor (although more than one instance could be used if needed obv) 

TimmyO

I think I'll make this a little project - various ways of cleaning up Piezo (inc the use of IRs) and record the results (I want to try out Helix recording anyway) and post them for humour and discussion. 

Sporky

AliGorie said:

hu ??
just looked up the Hell x thingy - wtf - overkill for an acoustic

Not if you already own one.

crunchman

TC Bodyrez (or something similar) can help.  You can get them for around £50 second hand.

Bridgehouse

AliGorie said:

Lewy said:

AliGorie said:

TimmyO said:

What's the received wisdom/starting points for EQing a Piezo ? There's a 3 band parametric on Helix, I've managed to improve it but any top tips gratefully received

get a better pu -
K&K Mini - or I've been meaning to try one of these - pos mixing with internal mic + outboard preamp.
Just a thought

I would ordinarily concur with this but not in this case .... if you're going to be using the pickup signal to drive Impulse Responses or an Aura pedal - or anything that adds simulated resonance to the sound, then an undersaddle
piezo is what you need.

Let me just swallow the little bit of sick that came up as I typed that....

hu ??
just looked up the Hell x thingy - wtf - overkill for an acoustic - if ya want an approximation of a reasonable acoustic sound it's gotta come from the 'transducer' and piezo just wont do - quack quack.
e.g. I've got a lovely little studio valve combo - I've NEVER thought of using it to amplify my acoustics - it's just not for that.
decent p/u 'n preamp - sorted

Shit. That's my recording solution for acoustics and bass up the spout then. Must remember only to use Helix for bluesy rock bedroom noodling.