Any extra things to consider if making a bass? or even a headless bass?

axisus

I'm fairly early into guitar build no 2, but I'm already thinking about my next project - a bass guitar. I'm also considering doing a headless one. Not sure of that yet, I have a bit of a love/hate thing with headless. 

Are there any other considerations to account for with making a bass - or specifically a headless instrument?

Ravenous

Only thing that annoys me about headless is you need double ball end strings.  (Unless of course you can source a good string clamp - as I doubt my ability to build a good clamp myself.)

Winny_Pooh

Ideally you'd make it neck through and laminate for strength but mahogany for weight.  hardware could be relatively pricy.
You could also build a 32 inch scale bass with a small 2x2 or 3x1 headstock and ultralight tuners.

This is 30' but very cool. 
https://www.reverendguitars.com/basses/mike-watt-wattplower

Headless guitars/basses just look odd to me. 

axisus

They do look weird. I have a bit of a love hate thing with them. I'd prefer to not go Through neck. My old status was a bolt on but then it was a graphite neck. Just mulling over the headless thing at the moment.

Andyjr1515

Over the last couple of years I seem to have majored on bass builds (but my next but one is a 6 string electric again  ) Not planned but each interesting build seems to have happily triggered a request for another even more interesting spec so I've just gone with it.

My present build is, as it happens, an ultra modern design that incorporates a headless tuner system, even though it will have a headstock!

Reference basses, it's pretty much the same as an electric but with particular attention to:

• Overall weight
• Head dive avoidance strategies

The two are interdependent which adds to the design challenge

Headless systems are one solution to that very issue, although, personally, I really don't like the stubb ended look that some ( but not all) of the systems dictate.  There are systems around that have a clamp system that means you can avoid the double ball end and, as I have found, the ability to have a more aesthetically pleasing headstock shape.

Bolt on is no problem, just ensuring that the pocket is long enough (and fixings man enough) to take the extra strain of the leverage from that much longer neck

Final point:
The effective length of the bass is, in my view, absolutely critical.  That is, how far you have to reach to fret the lower notes.  Get it wrong and a standard 34" scale can be literally unplayable because you can't reach.  I have some examples of the problem and some of the solutions I can outline if you are interested.

axisus

Andyjr1515 said:

.... I have some examples of the problem and some of the solutions I can outline if you are interested.

Many thanks for the post, useful info! I'd certainly be interested to hear more about problems/solutions.

GSPBASSES

There's no real difference between making a bass guitar and a guitar. As my username suggests, I specialised in making custom basses for over 20 years. My advice to anybody building a bass from scratch for the first time, by the planes for P- bass or Jazz bass, use these as a roadmap if you like.   If you're sticking with 20 frets, then it will be quite a large body as per jazz or P bass, you can go to 22 frets without basically changing the lower horn on these designs, however if you go to 24 frets, then the body becomes much smaller (shorter). If you're making your neck with 20 or 22 frets, then a normal slab maple neck blank will be fine. Although I do prefer laminated quartersawn neck’s, as I think these are stronger and sound better. I always make 24 fret necks quartersawn laminated, especially if it's going to be a 5 string long scale neck (35" or 36").

I have tried using carbon rods, but I find these make the neck to straight, also sometimes it's almost impossible for the truss rod to put any relief in the neck. One last point that you might find of interest, over the years I found it is best to keep the pickup positions as per Fender, I built lots of basses in my early days of bass building with the pickups in different positions, only to find they didn't sound too good. So now, whatever type of pickup I'm using I try to keep them in a fairly standard positions, even if the scale length is different to 34" I recalculate were the pickups will go.

axisus

@GSPBASSES many thanks!

octatonic

Ravenous said:

Only thing that annoys me about headless is you need double ball end strings.

You don't.

Axisus- look for ABM headless hardware.
I have it on my Forshage headless electric.
The bass hardware is equally excellent.

Ravenous

octatonic said:

Ravenous said:

Only thing that annoys me about headless is you need double ball end strings.

You don't.

Axisus- look for ABM headless hardware.
I have it on my Forshage headless electric.
The bass hardware is equally excellent.

Interested in this - do you happen to know how the ABM headpieces grip the string? I'm especially wondering if there's any slippage, and how the grub screws (or whatever they are) hold up after a few years of use...

(I've thought about using the ABM ones for both guitar & bass in the past, but not tried yet.)

WezV

I have some cheap headless bass hardware here.   I did attach it to an instrument once, couldn't tune the bloody thing so dismantled it and stuck it back in a drawer

Bork

octatonic said:

Ravenous said:

Only thing that annoys me about headless is you need double ball end strings.

You don't.

Axisus- look for ABM headless hardware.
I have it on my Forshage headless electric.
The bass hardware is equally excellent.

For mono rails, I used ABM a lot, it's excellent quality but have become damn expensive since the company changed hands.  Status do their own modified version which I understand are made in Korea but they haven't been available for sale separately for over 10 years.

Dmitry Yeremeyev at Mera Guitars makes some really nice headless tuners.  

http://meraguitars.com/eng/parts/mech/submarineb.html

I can't use any of the off-the-shelf solutions in my current builds, I don't need the saddle part, just the anchor so may look at designing some and getting them machined by e-machine shop.  Getting the tolerances right could be a trial and error ballache though.

One other thing to consider is balance.  Headless instruments tend to have longer bodies.  The balance point of the knee needs careful consideration especially if a chambered body is planned.

I like Moses graphite necks but their headless end pieces only take double ball end strings.  I got 90% of the way towards designing a headpiece that could take single ball strings and then realised the screws that hold the head piece on run parallel with the fingerboard and would be impossible to keep and still allow enough depth for allen bolts to clamp properly.  That whole end piece design is pretty poorly thought through which a shame but I have heard of people modifying the necks in some way.  Haven't heard how yet though but Bernd at Headless Europe may know.

octatonic

Ravenous said:

octatonic said:

Ravenous said:

Only thing that annoys me about headless is you need double ball end strings.

You don't.

Axisus- look for ABM headless hardware.
I have it on my Forshage headless electric.
The bass hardware is equally excellent.

Interested in this - do you happen to know how the ABM headpieces grip the string? I'm especially wondering if there's any slippage, and how the grub screws (or whatever they are) hold up after a few years of use...

(I've thought about using the ABM ones for both guitar & bass in the past, but not tried yet.)

Sorry for the delay- I didn't see this question.

It is a grub screw.
I've had my Forshage for 5 years and I change strings every month or so.
No slippage at all.