Les paul junior experts....

Hootsmon

Anybuddy know why the junior neck does not sit flush to the body ala les Paul std?

thanks guys

usedtobe

Because it's not a junior?

Hootsmon

Bounder...

ICBM

Because on a proper Junior the neck tenon is the full width of the neck and not a narrowed section, so the body has to be wider to accommodate it.

Some people think this is one of the reasons Juniors and Specials sound so good - the irony is that it was done to save money, but actually produces a much more accurate and tighter fit than the Standard/Custom narrow tenon.

The 2015 model above is not a proper Junior… although having a smooth neck joint is arguably the least of its problems.

Hootsmon

not proper....how so?  2015 ^

other than the daft nut...tuners....and  multiple piece body.....

Oh....does the 2015 have a flush neck join too?

IvisonGuitars

Are you talking about in the cutaway or on the top of the guitar?

It doesn't sit flat to the top of the guitar like a LP Standard because the neck needs to angle to get the strings over the pickup and up to the bridge.

On a Standard the neck joint is angled to match the maple cap so the fingerboard can then extend over it. The humbuckers are also routed deeper into the body so there is less need for the strings to have to clear a pickup - on the juniors the P90 is flush mounted to the body.

Vintage Gibson Les Paul bodies were all the same size be it Junior or Standard etc. The neck mortice on a junior in a slightly different place to accommodate the heel that @ICBM describes.

ICBM

hootsmon said:

not proper....how so?  2015 ^

other than the daft nut...tuners....and  multiple piece body.....

Oh....does the 2015 have a flush neck join too?

Looks like it in that pic. I haven't seen one personally so I'm not sure.

I have seen several other 2015-model Gibsons though, and they all have the unreliable robot tuners, the crappy adjustable brass nut (which was introduced to solve the tuning problems caused by the robot tuners) and the awful wide neck (which was introduced to accommodate the crappy brass nut), and the hideous scrawled 'signature' logo (introduced so you could easily identify and avoid one of these at a distance of about 2 miles, presumably). By comparison having a less good neck joint is probably a minor issue...

WezV

you can do a junior with flush cutaway and full width tenon - it still goes far enough into the body that the remaining pocket gives plenty of support


You can't do a flat top junior with the fretboard sitting flush with the top of the body.   you either need to raise the neck or angle it somehow - or both.

gibson have done it a few ways over the years


Raised neck with 0 neck angle on the first les paul juniors like this unusual example - also notice the side lip is missing so it must have a traditional tenon - not full width.  It also appears the mahogany under the frfetboard extension is a seperate bit to the rest of the neck


https://www.vintageguitar.com/3295/53-gibson-les-paul-junior/

They revisited that style in the 70's too - its not liked

on the 55's you can see its set much lower  into the body, but angled




a full carved top les paul has a few angle built into the top..  first plane it from body join to end of fretboard, second plane is end of fretboard to bridge.  This allows you to hide all this detail and have the fretboard flush with the top.

You can see some fo the angles involved in a carved top les paul in this thread
http://www.thefretboard.co.uk/discussion/55672/build-thread-pancake-body-les-paul-deluxe/p4

Hootsmon

thanks all 

underdog

ICBM said:

hootsmon said:

not proper....how so?  2015 ^

other than the daft nut...tuners....and  multiple piece body.....

Oh....does the 2015 have a flush neck join too?

Looks like it in that pic. I haven't seen one personally so I'm not sure.

I have seen several other 2015-model Gibsons though, and they all have the unreliable robot tuners, the crappy adjustable brass nut (which was introduced to solve the tuning problems caused by the robot tuners) and the awful wide neck (which was introduced to accommodate the crappy brass nut), and the hideous scrawled 'signature' logo (introduced so you could easily identify and avoid one of these at a distance of about 2 miles, presumably). By comparison having a less good neck joint is probably a minor issue...

To add some balance I own a 2015 junior, never had any issue with tuners or the nut, it's my most played guitar, I really like it and it's completely as it came from the factory and have no intention of changing a thing.

WezV

I liked my 2015 too, but it was too shiny for me.  I did consider ageing it, but it was actually the lack of a lip on the neck pocket that put me off doing that