The Theresa May General Election thread (edited)

Sambostar

So you'd stop translating for the people already here? What do you think the outcome of that would be?

We shoot them?

Fretwired

TheBigDipper said:

capo4th said:

The deficit between government income and expenditure is down which deficit are you referring to? 

The yearly deficit between income and expenditure may well be going down. That's called the "current budget deficit". As long as expenditure continues to exceed income, the total amount we owe, that's called "the UK National Debt" continues to get bigger every year. The process of austerity was intended to reduce our overall debt amount. It hasn't worked, as Thorpy noted, but it has resulted in misery for most of us and (oddly) no misery at all for a select few. 

The UK overdraft is getting bigger although the country has reduced the amount it overspends every month. It's still overspending. 

In January 2017, the UK National Debt was £1,682.8 billion - equivalent to 85.3% of GDP

That's how western economies run these days .. French debt is higher at 96% of GDP and even the prudent Germans are running at around 70% of GDP.

Fretwired

And in other news May's lead is cut ... a landslide now looking unlikely. You have to take the usual caveat that polls are rubbish though .. ;-)

Heartfeltdawn

capo4th said:

Are people really in misery? Someone said that earlier.

i just don't see it but I do live in London. 

I would suggest getting out of that bubble then. 

Heartfeltdawn

Fretwired said:

And in other news May's lead is cut ... a landslide now looking unlikely. You have to take the usual caveat that polls are rubbish though .. ;-)

Which poll are you quoting from? Sunday Mirror ComRes poll has her at 50%.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/conservative-tory-party-theresa-may-landslide-sweeping-election-victory-latest-polls-a7697351.html

Last YouGov poll says 48% for May. 

13 Labour MPs have announced that they are quitting. 

More importantly, I've got a sodding laptop to repair today. Disk read errors all over the place. I think it's borked. Yawn

Schnozz

Heartfeltdawn said:

capo4th said:

Are people really in misery? Someone said that earlier.

i just don't see it but I do live in London. 

I would suggest getting out of that bubble then. 

Bingo

VimFuego

Fretwired said:

TheBigDipper said:

capo4th said:

The deficit between government income and expenditure is down which deficit are you referring to? 

The yearly deficit between income and expenditure may well be going down. That's called the "current budget deficit". As long as expenditure continues to exceed income, the total amount we owe, that's called "the UK National Debt" continues to get bigger every year. The process of austerity was intended to reduce our overall debt amount. It hasn't worked, as Thorpy noted, but it has resulted in misery for most of us and (oddly) no misery at all for a select few. 

The UK overdraft is getting bigger although the country has reduced the amount it overspends every month. It's still overspending. 

In January 2017, the UK National Debt was £1,682.8 billion - equivalent to 85.3% of GDP

That's how western economies run these days .. French debt is higher at 96% of GDP and even the prudent Germans are running at around 70% of GDP.

it is, this is correct, but it doesn't make it right tho. Getting off topic here, but we need to break the link btween debt and government. All it does is fuel the coffers of the money lenders.

Fretwired

Heartfeltdawn said:

Fretwired said:

And in other news May's lead is cut ... a landslide now looking unlikely. You have to take the usual caveat that polls are rubbish though .. ;-)

Which poll are you quoting from? Sunday Mirror ComRes poll has her at 50%.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/conservative-tory-party-theresa-may-landslide-sweeping-election-victory-latest-polls-a7697351.html

Last YouGov poll says 48% for May. 

13 Labour MPs have announced that they are quitting. 

More importantly, I've got a sodding laptop to repair today. Disk read errors all over the place. I think it's borked. Yawn

A poll carried out for the Mail on Sunday which is a Tory supporting paper.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4436044/Tory-lead-slashed-half-tax-U-turn.html

Fretwired

VimFuego said:

Fretwired said:

TheBigDipper said:

capo4th said:

The deficit between government income and expenditure is down which deficit are you referring to? 

The yearly deficit between income and expenditure may well be going down. That's called the "current budget deficit". As long as expenditure continues to exceed income, the total amount we owe, that's called "the UK National Debt" continues to get bigger every year. The process of austerity was intended to reduce our overall debt amount. It hasn't worked, as Thorpy noted, but it has resulted in misery for most of us and (oddly) no misery at all for a select few. 

The UK overdraft is getting bigger although the country has reduced the amount it overspends every month. It's still overspending. 

In January 2017, the UK National Debt was £1,682.8 billion - equivalent to 85.3% of GDP

That's how western economies run these days .. French debt is higher at 96% of GDP and even the prudent Germans are running at around 70% of GDP.

it is, this is correct, but it doesn't make it right tho. Getting off topic here, but we need to break the link btween debt and government. All it does is fuel the coffers of the money lenders.

Agree, but remember when Osborne was being prudent (for about 10 minutes) and our debt to GDP ratio was much lower he was attacked by the EU, IMF and Labour and the pound fell as the 'experts' said there was room to borrow money and have less austerity. So he did.

VimFuego

Fretwired said:

VimFuego said:

Fretwired said:

TheBigDipper said:

capo4th said:

The deficit between government income and expenditure is down which deficit are you referring to? 

The yearly deficit between income and expenditure may well be going down. That's called the "current budget deficit". As long as expenditure continues to exceed income, the total amount we owe, that's called "the UK National Debt" continues to get bigger every year. The process of austerity was intended to reduce our overall debt amount. It hasn't worked, as Thorpy noted, but it has resulted in misery for most of us and (oddly) no misery at all for a select few. 

The UK overdraft is getting bigger although the country has reduced the amount it overspends every month. It's still overspending. 

In January 2017, the UK National Debt was £1,682.8 billion - equivalent to 85.3% of GDP

That's how western economies run these days .. French debt is higher at 96% of GDP and even the prudent Germans are running at around 70% of GDP.

it is, this is correct, but it doesn't make it right tho. Getting off topic here, but we need to break the link btween debt and government. All it does is fuel the coffers of the money lenders.

Agree, but remember when Osborne was being prudent (for about 10 minutes) and our debt to GDP ratio was much lower he was attacked by the EU, IMF and Labour and the pound fell as the 'experts' said there was room to borrow money and have less austerity. So he did.

well, they're all facets of the same problem. This is why you need to transced tribal politics and see the bigger picture (and the root of the problem). Sadly, so many people (as evidenced in this thread and all over FB etc) are stuck in their simplistic and dualistic thinking. Politicians, the IMF etc are just mouthpieces.

Jalapeno

Fretwired said:

Heartfeltdawn said:

Fretwired said:

And in other news May's lead is cut ... a landslide now looking unlikely. You have to take the usual caveat that polls are rubbish though .. ;-)

Which poll are you quoting from? Sunday Mirror ComRes poll has her at 50%.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/conservative-tory-party-theresa-may-landslide-sweeping-election-victory-latest-polls-a7697351.html

Last YouGov poll says 48% for May. 

13 Labour MPs have announced that they are quitting. 

More importantly, I've got a sodding laptop to repair today. Disk read errors all over the place. I think it's borked. Yawn

A poll carried out for the Mail on Sunday which is a Tory supporting paper.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4436044/Tory-lead-slashed-half-tax-U-turn.html

I'd say might be a reaction to - potential tax rises, pension triple-lock removal and re-confirmation of the foreign aid budget. I thought these were seriously stupid things to say - all daggers to the core support (not maintaining foreign aid per se, but to do it whilst shafting taxpayers & pensioners - bad electoral ju-ju.

Fretwired

VimFuego said:

Fretwired said:

VimFuego said:

Fretwired said:

TheBigDipper said:

capo4th said:

The deficit between government income and expenditure is down which deficit are you referring to? 

The yearly deficit between income and expenditure may well be going down. That's called the "current budget deficit". As long as expenditure continues to exceed income, the total amount we owe, that's called "the UK National Debt" continues to get bigger every year. The process of austerity was intended to reduce our overall debt amount. It hasn't worked, as Thorpy noted, but it has resulted in misery for most of us and (oddly) no misery at all for a select few. 

The UK overdraft is getting bigger although the country has reduced the amount it overspends every month. It's still overspending. 

In January 2017, the UK National Debt was £1,682.8 billion - equivalent to 85.3% of GDP

That's how western economies run these days .. French debt is higher at 96% of GDP and even the prudent Germans are running at around 70% of GDP.

it is, this is correct, but it doesn't make it right tho. Getting off topic here, but we need to break the link btween debt and government. All it does is fuel the coffers of the money lenders.

Agree, but remember when Osborne was being prudent (for about 10 minutes) and our debt to GDP ratio was much lower he was attacked by the EU, IMF and Labour and the pound fell as the 'experts' said there was room to borrow money and have less austerity. So he did.

well, they're all facets of the same problem. This is why you need to transced tribal politics and see the bigger picture (and the root of the problem). Sadly, so many people (as evidenced in this thread and all over FB etc) are stuck in their simplistic and dualistic thinking. Politicians, the IMF etc are just mouthpieces.

Agreed. But in the days of social media anyone with a Facebook or Twitter account can become an expert - politicians are only human and five years goes by quickly.

And Joe Public wants billions more spent on public services like the NHS, but ignores the waste and inefficiency that means toilet rolls cost the NHS £5 each a sink costs £2K.

ToneControl

MrBump said:

It's not boys vs girls.  It's just people.  To suggest that women haven't had a shit time throughout modern history is to be disingenuous.  Very recently, women and girls were seen as chattles, little more than traded possessions.  If you think that this is somehow irrelevant because of the millions of young men that died during the early part of the 20th century - again, it's playground politics.  Men aren't more important than women, women aren't more important than men, playing the blame game doesn't help the cause of equality of opportunity.

The book covers all this, whereas you're assuming it's a book that is anti-female

This book is more than 30 years old, and written by a prominent male feminist of the era, and does not say that men are more important than women, where did you get that idea?

If you don't want to explore the points made by this excellent author, then just say so

Jalapeno

Fretwired said:

And Joe Public wants billions more spent on public services like the NHS, but ignores the waste and inefficiency that means toilet rolls cost the NHS £5 each a sink costs £2K.

A-fucking-men to that. There's shedloads more money in the NHS, 1000s of beds have gone and hordes more people employed, yet the service still goes down - and balls to the "NHS inflation is different" tired old line.  A lot of hospitals are run by totally incompetent eegits, who fritter away money like it's confetti. All the scandals coming to light are not down to lack of cash - just incompetent & irresponsible management  & staff.

Anecdote1 - took my old Dad to his glaucoma clinic for a 10am appointment (they open at 8am), to be told they were currently running 2hrs behind - so in the 2hrs they were open they'd got 2hrs behind, to quote Chris Camara "Unbelievable" !!!! 

Anecdote2 - when my Mum was dying they took the person who was responsible for finding end-of-life care outside hospital off that job and put her on the wards (year end budget nonsense) - my Mum was in hospital for 7 weeks (on a 100% mixed ward) while she drifted away; a month after she died I got a call from the regional NHS community care office asking, given a choice where I'd like her to be moved to (they got a curt and to the point response).  (I'd actually found a bed for her at the local BUPA elderly care unit, who had a bed, seemed genuinely concerned, and had suitably trained staff, and had an NHS contract for such things - but without the admin wonks doing anything it couldn't happen)

This institutionalized malaise is not down to "Tory Cuts" (given my Mum died under Gordon Brown's "leadership")

Heartfeltdawn

Fretwired said:

A poll carried out for the Mail on Sunday which is a Tory supporting paper.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4436044/Tory-lead-slashed-half-tax-U-turn.html

So pretty much the only poll out this Sunday which says her lead is dropping. Interesting that it's a paper that supported Remain that is pretty much the only one saying her support is dropping. 

Jalapeno

Eh ? Am I missing biting irony there or something ?  The Daily Fail is rabidly pro-Brexit

VimFuego

mail on sunday isn't

Jalapeno

It's say it was a broadside to tell her to STFU about tax rises rather than anything Brexit related.

Heartfeltdawn

Jalapeno said:

Eh ? Am I missing biting irony there or something ?  The Daily Fail is rabidly pro-Brexit

The Times was Remain: Sunday Times Leave. Daily Mail was Leave, Mail on Sunday Remain. Different editors and different agendas. 

scrumhalf

Polls, schmolls.

Experice of recent elections and referenda should make one very wary of accepting poll data with only the most blood pressure-elevating pinch of salt.