FX Help !!

GrahamG

EricTheWeary said:

One possibility is just to buy a very cheap multi fx (
like a Zoom), read the manual and then play around with the effects. I'm not saying they will sound great but they shouldn't sound awful and you will get some sense of how things work. So, delay for example has three basic parameters and you can mess around with what happens when you adjust each up and down and then what happens if you do other stuff like add modulation. If you want to spend more money then you will have a better idea of the sounds you like and how to adjust them.

If you are chasing a very specific sound there's often a chance someone else has worked on it so google can be your friend there. As it happens the solo on the original of I Want to Break Free not played by Brian or on guitar at all, it's a synth imitating a guitar so even Brian has issues with that one and on the live versions I've listened to he doesn't sound much like the record (I think he just uses a wah).

Well there you go,i told you i knew zilch about effects ,so i'll duck out of it by saying when i posted about that song,i was referring to it being played by a young band in a Pub & he had the intro sound & solo nailed.

Drew_TNBD said:

GrahamG said:

Hi,i have no idea where to start with this,but here goes.
I have been playing Guitar(gigging),since the late '50's & in all that time i have never been able to get to grips with using or setting effects.
Over the years i have bought a few echo/reverb units & have always switched off or unplugged them after a couple of songs(or less).
I have in recent years even bought a couple of multi effects units GT100  &  POD500HD(actually i've bought them twice)& still failed miserably with them.
I think the problem stems from playing just rhythm for the 1st 10 years of my playing,so when i switch on any effect,in my head it just sounds like i'm swamping my guitar sound,but i hear lots of players use them live & they sound great,for instance we regulary go to watch a young band who have no on stage amps whatsoever,just processors of some sort( i've also tried to do with the Multi Effects units),but their Guitar sounds are sometimes brilliant,for instance the sound on Queens(want to break free)is as near to Brian May as i have ever heard,so it is possible
I suspect the main problem is i have no idea what i'm doing setting the parameters or which effects are being used to create any given sound,maybe i should buy a better quality unit(Helix?) & give it one final try before i die.
But where/how do i learn how to build/program a required sound,ala Brian May(without aiming too high )
I think i'm beyond help,but if anyone could,point me in the right direction with how get to grips with any of this,i'd owe you at least 1 pint,maybe even 2.

Hey Graham,

What amp are you using?

I've just started using 2 Katana KN50's

Luminous said:

If I may suggest a left field idea, book a couple of lessons with a local teacher who has FX and knows what they do and know how to use them. I've had a few people come to me for a couple of lessons in that and it's saved them a huge amount of money because they can then just get what they need.

This is exactly what i should do,the next time i see the aforementioned Band playing,i'm going to discuss it with them.
Thanks,Luminous.

Can i just answer the couple of comments about Guitar-Amp & away we go,there is certainly no problem with this,i've been doing it for nearly 60yrs & if it's good enough for Mick green & Wilko,it's good enough for me.
I think it's an age thing,as i get nearer & nearer to the care home or death,i'm trying to cram more & more in,before i go or even worse have to give up
Many thanks to all for taking the time to help me out.

sgosden

diving into a massive multi fx like the helix would likely just introduce a shit tonne of option paralysis.
I remember getting myself one of the native guitar rig programmes, before I understood anything about fx. it posed far to many possibilities, and I only lasted a few months before never touching it again.

Something like the line6 m5 or m9 offers a fair amount of fx for not a lot of money.

Teetonetal

I'd go simple. Get a few 2nd hand fx that are well regarded and easy to use. Then sell on if you don't get on.

Some dod, boss, ehx, tone city or mooer pedals would do the trick depending on what you like. 

Just only buy a couple at a time and spend time using them.

What sounds are you after?

Sporky

GrahamG said:

Can i just answer the couple of comments about Guitar-Amp & away we go,there is certainly no problem with this,i've been doing it for nearly 60yrs & if it's good enough for Mick green & Wilko,it's good enough for me.
I think it's an age thing,as i get nearer & nearer to the care home or death,i'm trying to cram more & more in,before i go or even worse have to give up  

Makes sense - I didn't mean to put you off a voyage of discovery.

ICBM

GrahamG said:

I've just started using 2 Katana KN50's

In that case you shouldn't need to buy anything else, unless you don't have the footswitch for them - I haven't tried one yet but from all reports I've read the built-in effects are just what you need for simple, classic guitar sounds. (ie not trying to sound like a UFO taking off.)

If that's too daunting or you can't find sounds you like it it, I'd probably just start with some really classic pedals like a wah, Tube Screamer-type overdrive and a delay - you can get a huge amount of mileage out of just this.

GrahamG

I've tried the in built effects,but as far as i can tell they are sort of on or off,with no means of setting the parameters.
There is an editor(BTS),but once again they have to be set up on a Computer & once sent to the KN50,there is no adjustment on the fly(as i understand it),i do use on of the boosts & one of the Amps.
But even here i'm a bit lost i've read that it may be best to use one Amp with effects & one without?.
I'd try & have a go at the editor,but my computer is steam driven,by todays standards(Vista)& windows 8 or above is required,.

ICBM

Hmmm... that's not so good. I'd probably look into a few simple pedals then. Just don't get sucked down the usual rabbit hole of fancy overdrives .

If you're using two amps, a stereo chorus or delay will be ideal for splitting the sound, you can usually set them for either wet/dry, or for stereo wet, whichever sounds best. (Bear in mind that if you're also putting the amps through the PA, which is best depends on whether you're doing it with one or both amps.)

GrahamG

Yes the amps are mic'd,so what would you recommend?

ICBM

If both are mic'ed you ideally need a wet/dry output or the effect (chorus especially) can disappear in the PA sound when it's mixed back to mono. If only one is mic'ed you really need a stereo output or you will either get dry or pure effect depending on which is mic'ed. If you're using a delay like a Boss DD-3, make sure it's right or you'll only get repeats (no dry signal) through the PA, if that's the side that's mic'ed - very disconcerting, especially if that also feeds the monitors .

GrahamG

ICBM said:

If both are mic'ed you ideally need a wet/dry output or the effect (chorus especially) can disappear in the PA sound when it's mixed back to mono. If only one is mic'ed you really need a stereo output or you will either get dry or pure effect depending on which is mic'ed. If you're using a delay like a Boss DD-3, make sure it's right or you'll only get repeats (no dry signal) through the PA, if that's the side that's mic'ed - very disconcerting, especially if that also feeds the monitors .

Sorry for the "delay" =)in replying,yes both amps are mic'd,so from reading your reply,would i use any given "effects" or "effect" through 1 amp only("wet")? & keep the other Amp with no effect ("dry")?.
Could you help me with another question?,i occasionally(when desk channels get full)use a splitter cable to feed both mics/amps into 1 channel,it dosen't seem to hurt the amp sound through the pa,but if i did this with an effect(say a delay)on 1 amp as suggested would this splitter cause problems,with the "wet"/"dry" sound,hope you don't mind the further questions.

richcol

I have a Line6 M5 in mint condition I'm looking to sell on. PM me if interested.

Kebabkid

No affiliation but this might be the sort of thing to look at

http://www.thefretboard.co.uk/discussion/101783/fs-ft-t-rex-soulmate-analog-multi-effects-unit-210#latest

ICBM

GrahamG said:

Sorry for the "delay" =)in replying,yes both amps are mic'd,so from reading your reply,would i use any given "effects" or "effect" through 1 amp only("wet")? & keep the other Amp with no effect ("dry")?.

Could you help me with another question?,i occasionally(when desk channels get full)use a splitter cable to feed both mics/amps into 1 channel,it dosen't seem to hurt the amp sound through the pa,but if i did this with an effect(say a delay)on 1 amp as suggested would this splitter cause problems,with the "wet"/"dry" sound,hope you don't mind the further questions.

I don't mind .

The answer is the same for both cases - if you're mic'ing both amps and/or mixing the signals together, you need wet/dry. If you're mic'ing just one or only using one feed to the desk, use stereo. I know that's possibly counterintuitive in that it may seem the opposite of what you would expect, but it's because the PA is essentially a mono mix usually.

The best is probably wet/dry with both amps mic'ed, because that gives the soundman more control over the relative FX level in the final mix - that's one of the major reasons most pro rigs use this approach.

If you don't have that option and it has to be stereo, make sure the two channels aren't mixed to mono or some stereo effects will disappear completely.

revsorg

If a computer is necessary for you to properly use a KN50 then buy a laptop.

JMP220478

@GrahamG   -   private message me I'm local - Crosby - happy to give you some time to get you started with some basics

GrahamG

revsorg said:

If a computer is necessary for you to properly use a KN50 then buy a laptop.

I think i'm correct in saying,that the effects can only be edited with a computer,which would mean if something needed altering on a gig,the Amp would have to be connected to a Computer,so no chance of me doing that.
Also i bought the Amps for their sound,so i think i am properly using them

GrahamG

ICBM,thanks.i'm slowly digesting the information you posted,before i ask any more dumb questions.

GrahamG

JMP220478 said:

@GrahamG   -   private message me I'm local - Crosby - happy to give you some time to get you started with some basics

That is a very generous offer,but i'm so dumb with this effects thing,i feel i should get some basic idea of a starting place,before i use up any of your time.
Thank you for the offer.

revsorg

GrahamG said:
... so when i switch on any effect,in my head it just sounds like i'm swamping my guitar sound

Maybe this would work:

In the privacy of your own home use the Tone Editor software to configure various patches in your 2 KN50 amps. In your patches set the intensity of the effects so they can be moderated by the expression pedal in a live performance. 

EricTheWeary

There is a lot of stuff on YouTube about what pedals do but I've stumbled across some that MusicRadar did a couple of years ago with Boss outlining the very basics, I think this is all of them: