MIDI - mapping, routing and message transformation

FreddieVanHalen

OK, I decided to hold my nose and get into some MIDI stuff and have come up against my first hurdle/confusion with midi controllers and routing/mapping midi messages.

The first problem I have is that I've got an

• amp that is midi switchable, but wants specific PC or CC messages on channel 14 (can't be changed).
• pedal board switcher that will send PC messages but only on channels 1 - 10, and will only send a PC message that corresponds to a specific foot switch/bank.

So, what kind of gadget do I need that could take say, a PC message #5 on channel 1 and map that to another PC or CC message on channel 14?

Is there something like a MIDI mapper/router that would allow me to configure such a mapping or transformation of messages?

Sorry if this is a rookie question but I've done some googling and not come up with anything obvious....

@professorben I know you love your MIDI any directions you could point me in?

Thanks in advance!

professorben

What's the amp and switcher?

FreddieVanHalen

Thanks Ben!

Switcher is a GigRig G2 and the amp is a Suhr PT100.

Part of the problem I'm going to face is that the G2 will only send on up to three channels, and I was hoping to be able to control more than three devices...I could put several devices on the same channel I guess but was hoping to avoid that if possible.

I also have a couple Chase Bliss pedals where it would be nice to be able to map the PC messages from the G2 to the correct channel.

professorben

http://www.midisolutions.com/prodrte.htm

Off the the top of my head this will re route midi to 2 different midi channels.

professorben

So you could send on channel 5 and reroute it to 10 and say 12...

FreddieVanHalen

I found that one, and it would probably get me up and running with the G2 and the Suhr.

My dream product would be one that went a bit further though and allowed me to map a single PC message to up to 8 other channels and message mappings at the same time and I don't think the midi solutions kit goes that far (unless I'm mistaken).

The other option that I'd started to consider was the MorningStar midi controller, as that allows you to map/generate I think up to 8 midi messages from a single button press.

It doesn't map incoming messages in that way though, so I'd end up having to use that as my foot controller to send midi messages to the midi pedals/devices and the G2...so I'd have two controllers on my board LOL but at least I'd be able to control up to eight midi pedals plus the non-midi stuff via the G2.

I think I may be going into overkill on this!

professorben

Possible overkill lol

with this stuff it's all to easy to get bogged down with the potential and forget the requirement. 

Make a list of all the tones you want
Amp
Fx
combinations. 

When I did this I discovered I have 4 main tones

Clean
Clean Wet 
Heavy crunch
Lead

So I programmed my Switcher to give me those 4 tones in each bank
Then switches 5-10 give me variations of Fx on each of those tones
Midi wise I then only send one PC change per preset to all my devices and if I double up presets I don't worry about it. 

This way If I want to edit a preset I only have to change one Midi instruction, and just remember to save the new presets on each pedal. 

FreddieVanHalen

professorben said:

...
So I programmed my Switcher to give me those 4 tones in each bank
Then switches 5-10 give me variations of Fx on each of those tones
Midi wise I then only send one PC change per preset to all my devices and if I double up presets I don't worry about it. 

This way If I want to edit a preset I only have to change one Midi instruction, and just remember to save the new presets on each pedal. 

This is a good way of thinking about it and way more simple than my mad mapping approach.

I'll have a bit more of challenge with the Chase Bliss stuff as you can't copy and replicate presets like you might on a more traditional midi pedal.

The other option I thought of was chucking an Eventide H9 into the equation, as that would allow me to do some simple mappings according to preset. It's just a shame it appear the midi maps on the Eventide are at the global system level and not the preset level...you also don't seem to be able to do multiple mappings at the same time like the MorningStar..

hotpickups

Blimey that does sound a very complicated set up. My head hurts trying to understand all of that lol, Sorry I can't help but I'll be watching with interest

professorben

FreddieVanHalen said:

professorben said:

...
So I programmed my Switcher to give me those 4 tones in each bank
Then switches 5-10 give me variations of Fx on each of those tones
Midi wise I then only send one PC change per preset to all my devices and if I double up presets I don't worry about it. 

This way If I want to edit a preset I only have to change one Midi instruction, and just remember to save the new presets on each pedal. 

This is a good way of thinking about it and way more simple than my mad mapping approach.

I'll have a bit more of challenge with the Chase Bliss stuff as you can't copy and replicate presets like you might on a more traditional midi pedal.

The other option I thought of was chucking an Eventide H9 into the equation, as that would allow me to do some simple mappings according to preset. It's just a shame it appear the midi maps on the Eventide are at the global system level and not the preset level...you also don't seem to be able to do multiple mappings at the same time like the MorningStar..

I've just picked up an H9, and whilst I'm not yet into the Midi mapping im fairly confidant it will support pretty much any Midi control I can throw at it. 

prowla

I was thinking about this - surely there must be a MIDI switcher unit which will (without the aid of a computer) map input MIDI channel(s) to output ones...

FreddieVanHalen

prowla said:

I was thinking about this - surely there must be a MIDI switcher unit which will (without the aid of a computer) map input MIDI channel(s) to output ones...

I think there are many options that will allow you to map midi channels, but finding something that will allow you to map messages as well as channels seems to be a bit harder without the aid of a computer...

I've just remembered that I had an old Keith McMillan SoftStep hanging around from a previous failed MIDI attempt. Going through the manual now and as it finally clicks into place I'm realising it's not a bad piece of kit. Would still required the computer to be running to do the mapping functionality I need, but I could set up some standalone key mappings that would enable me to control the midi pedals and the G2 presets....

Need to start doing some experiments :-)

longi

Are you only wanting to bank up and down? Ie change channels? If so you only need a simple midi controller. 99% of the time you only need to be on channel one for that. Unless you really need midi mapping it's not worth bothering about a midi mapper or control messages etc.

FreddieVanHalen

longi said:

Are you only wanting to bank up and down? Ie change channels? If so you only need a simple midi controller. 99% of the time you only need to be on channel one for that. Unless you really need midi mapping it's not worth bothering about a midi mapper or control messages etc.

You'd normally be right if I had some devices with a decent midi implementation :-)

The amp will only take midi on Channel 14 and the controllers will only send on up to channel 10.

It's as much a project to see how far I can go with midi really. Would defo build something simpler for a gigging board, would be a bit annoying to be stood on stage with a little diagram of midi mapping tables trying to work out what's going wrong  

FreddieVanHalen

Calling @Gassage mind if I ask what you have as your midi control centre?

hotpickups

Doesn't your DPC-5 cover any of this?

Gassage

FreddieVanHalen said:

Calling @Gassage mind if I ask what you have as your midi control centre?

Axxess Electronic floor switcher (now discontinued but much loved and very hard to get)
Mark L 12 loop MIDI loop switcher and clean supply (highly recommended but serious bucks)

Re this question: So, what kind of gadget do I need that could take say, a PC message #5 on channel 1 and map that to another PC or CC message on channel 14?

Bradshaw do a box that covers this.

Don't forget- I've got 2 amps that are single channel and also I don't use MIDI into the rack units as there's only 2 (2290 and Modpro) that take MIDI and I only need one setting on those which I can preset into them.

If I were less lazy, I'd get the 2290 and Mod Pro rack swtiched but then you've got to patch it all up.

FreddieVanHalen

hotpickups said:

Doesn't your DPC-5 cover any of this?

The DPC-5 does this very well actually, providing that you only have up to four midi devices.

It's already on a separate board though and as a daft project I'm about to build a silly mega-board with seven midi pedals, up to ten slots for normal pedals, and a midi controlled amp.

Before anyone asks, I have no good reason for doing this whatsoever!

drwiddly

From what I can see you've massively over complicated this. If your basic requirements are to change amp channels and switch fx on and off, keep everything on one channel, use program changes for the amp channels and control changes for switching the fx on and off. Using separate channels for everything will just do your head in.

hotpickups

Nah just sell me the DPC-5 and use the one board when you've sorted the midi thang out LOL

Gassage

By the way, the major issue here is the G2. For all its great strengths, MIDI is not one of them- the Free the Tone ARC-3 is miles better in this application.

http://www.effectsdatabase.com/model/freethetone/arc/3