K&K Pure Mini

Strat_a_tat_tat

Which model should I get for my J45?  There's the basic pickup... then there's the one with a volume control... plus the one with the mini jack socket. Any recommendations?

Also... for a pre-amp... is it better to go with a K&K model... or some other make (bearing in mind it'll be used with the Pure Mini pickup)?

Here are the two K&K preamps... any comments on their relative merits?

https://www.andertons.co.uk/p/KKPUREPREAMP/acoustic-guitar-pickups/kk-sound-pure-preamp

https://www.andertons.co.uk/p/PUREXLRPRE/preamps-and-channel-strips/kk-pure-xlr-preamp

... and here's a dumb question... if I plug my acoustic's K&K Pure Mini into my Line 6 Helix (and then into the PA)... do I even need an acoustic pre-amp???

Many thanks.

ICBM

Be careful with a Gibson - look inside with a mirror and check whether there is a hole in the middle of the bridgeplate. (It looks like a locating hole used in construction.) If so that might make installing a K&K awkward - both my Gibsons have it, and I haven't yet worked out what to do if I want to fit one... it's right where the middle sensor needs to go.

If it's possible I would go for the standard, simple model with a full-size jack - don't make things more complicated and unreliable than you have to.

I haven't tried them with a wide variety of external preamps - just an old Fishman Pro EQ and a Boss AD-8, both of which sounded good - but if you're going into a Helix you don't need one anyway.

Strat_a_tat_tat

Thanks @ICBM. I'll check out the bridgeplate with a mirror as you suggest. To add further complication... it's a 2016 CS Vintage J45 (the one with the heat treated Adi top... and loads of other differences versus a regular J45) - and I think that means it's got a smaller bridgeplate than a regular J45... so that'll add to my challenge.

I'll buy the standard model - as you suggest - and if I can't find a way to fit it to the J45, I'll fit it to my Brook.

Thanks for confirmation that use of Helix means I don't need a Pre-amp.

Cheers

Lewy

Some recent relevant experience - I have the Pure Mini in two guitars -  a Collings D1A and a J45 TV which is essentially the non-baked predecessor to yours.

When installing the K&K on the J45 the bridge plate was so small that I had to make a choice between either not having the sensor directly under the saddle or having part of one of the sensors hanging off the edge of the plate. I guessed the second was the lesser of two evils so went with that. When I gigged it, it seemed fine but the other day I took both guitars to a gig and there was a night and day difference in the output and fullness of the sound between the two guitars. The J45 went back in the case pretty much straight away. 

So I'd conclude that you can get away with it, but the K&K and that vintage style J45 are a sub-optimal pairing.

ICBM

I recently did three K&Ks for a friend - one was a Santa Cruz Tony Rice model with the vintage-style small bridgeplate, and I had the same problem and chose the same solution - actually all three sensors overhung the front edge of the plate slightly. Although it sounds fine, and you probably wouldn't notice the difference in isolation, compared to the other two guitars it was a bit down on volume and bottom end.

So there are definitely issues with fitting K&Ks and some guitars - which is a shame as otherwise it's the perfect passive internal pickup.

paganskins

ICBM said:

I recently did three K&Ks for a friend - one was a Santa Cruz Tony Rice model with the vintage-style small bridgeplate, and I had the same problem and chose the same solution - actually all three sensors overhung the front edge of the plate slightly. Although it sounds fine, and you probably wouldn't notice the difference in isolation, compared to the other two guitars it was a bit down on volume and bottom end.

So there are definitely issues with fitting K&Ks and some guitars - which is a shame as otherwise it's the perfect passive internal pickup.

I've got one to put in my HD28V when I get a minute, hadn't considered the bridge plate being an issue. Google suggest it has a 1 15/16" is that a vintage style small bridge plate?

BigLicks67

My J45 had a LR Baggs Element VTC pre-installed, so they must be suitable for J45's and to be fair it's sounds pretty good for an under saddle pickup, which usually sound bobbins in my experience.

Strat_a_tat_tat

@ICBM and @Lewy. Many thanks for your insights... you helped me dodge a bullet there.

Guess I might have to rethink the strategy for my J45. From all the positive comments about the K&K, I had my heart set on one.... and I've really learnt to dislike piezos (I have a Highlander in a Lowden). Any suggestions on what to use for the J45, instead of a Pure Mini??

ICBM

BigLicks67 said:

My J45 had a LR Baggs Element VTC pre-installed, so they must be suitable for J45's and to be fair it's sounds pretty good for an under saddle pickup, which usually sound bobbins in my experience.

I really don't like the ones in my Gibsons. I removed the one in my Dove and fitted a passive Fishman, which I was using with an Aura… but I became frustrated with the Aura* and I've actually gone back to using the Pro EQ - it's not good, but it is at least predictable. The one in my CJ165 needs fixing - the low E string is weak - and it doesn't sound as good as the Fishman/Pro EQ set-up in my opinion.

*The problem with the Aura is that it sounds brilliant - when it's set up exactly right. However when it's even slightly wrong sounds awful… which makes it much less than ideal for something I will often need to just plug into the PA at an open mic, and hope the soundman can get something decent out of, without me being able to hear what it sounds like out front. (I also don't like the tuner and the footswitches, but that's another issue.)

I borrowed the AD-8 when I was setting up my friend's guitars with the K&Ks, and at the moment it's probably the front runner to replace the Fishman, although it has other disadvantages (large, expensive, more complex than I need).

So the question for me is also what to do… I'm really tempted just to stick soundhole pickups in both of them to be honest. But I'm shallow and I hate the look .

paganskins said:

I've got one to put in my HD28V when I get a minute, hadn't considered the bridge plate being an issue. Google suggest it has a 1 15/16" is that a vintage style small bridge plate?

It should be OK. This is the shape of the bridgeplate:

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y52/wrfrench/Martin Guitar/MartinHD-28andHD-28Vbridgeplate.jpg

The ones you have to be careful with are these:

http://www.vintagemartin.com/121211Martin39_017_019.jpg

Where there isn't enough room between the ball ends and the edge of the bridgeplate to fit the sensors.

paganskins

Thanks @ICBM ;

AD-2 seems to be an AD-8 lite though I wasn't keen on the one I had but I was using it with a fishman power bridge and the lack of volume and tone control isn't best – probably better thought of like the tc body rez pedal plus reverb.

I'm now using a Zoom MS-50G instead.

ICBM

The AD-2 is much too light on features for me. The AD-3 is just wrong, too... it has chorus, but no tuner. Come on Boss, this isn't the 90s any more! The old AD-5 has no tuner either. If they would just do one (AD-6?) which was the 3 with the chorus replaced by a tuner I would buy one immediately.

crunchman

If it fits your guitar I'd get the one with the volume control.  It is a useful thing to have.  I use it quite a lot.  A purely passive volume shouldn't give you many reliability issues.