Linking amps via inputs vs using a splitter box ?

Ossyrocks

Hi Chaps,

I played my first gig with a new band on Saturday, classic rock covers. My main amp was my Gartone 5E3 Deluxe cranked to around 9, with treble on around 10. This gives it lots of drive, but also the ability to clean up from the volume of my Les Paul.

Next to it, I put my Marshall 1974X and linked them together using a guitar lead from the normal input channel 1 of the 5E3 to the high input of the non trem channel on the Marshall. I set it up this way "just in case" I needed a bit more later in the gig.

I did in fact need some more, so as the night went on, I gradually brought in the Marshall to bolster the Gartone. Whilst it didn't change the fundamental tweed tone, it just sounded bigger and slightly louder. The Marshall only got up to around 5 by the end of the night.

I didn't have any noise issues or hum on the night, but I'm wondering whether I can always rely on that being the case.

Do you guys have any experience of using two amps the way I did on Saturday vs using a splitter box? I've been looking at something like the Lehle P-Split.

Any input welcome.

Cheers,
Rob.

Ossyrocks

Ok, I'm resurrecting this thread, as I do need some help.

When linking the two amps via the inputs, the gain of each is slightly reduced, which means I don't get full grind out of either of them. Simply unplugging the lead from the second amp, increases the gain and drive in the first one.

What I need is a splitter box which does not reduce the signal from my guitar to either of the amps, I want them to sound just as they would had I plugged into either of them individually.

Does such a thing exist?

I know Joe Bonamassa uses the Lehle P-Split to run multiple amps, but this is passive and I can't help thinking it will reduce the signal, but without any potential ground or noise issues.

Can anyone advise?

Cheers,
Rob

ICBM

Just run any buffered pedal before the amps - or a clean boost, even if not buffered.

simonk

I have a Lehle 1@3 for sale... you could pick and choose between them then.

ecc83

IC's buffer pedal (any NOT 'true bypass ***t, i.e. any of 'cough!') is good advice but. An amp with the industry standard 'high and low' input jacks causes the input Z to descend to 68k or less. This is not generally known or noticed by guitarists which means 'The Magic Meg' is not as important as peeps think.

On the hum loop front? Yes you could have a problem in certain venues. Always ensure the two amps share the same power sockets i.e. adjacent on a strip or a double outlet. Might be worth making up a spare link cable with the screen diss'ed one end.

LABEL IT!

Dave.

thermionic

The standard suggestion is this: http://www.brightonion.co.uk/active-aby-pedal-with-isolated-second-output/

ICBM

ecc83 said:

IC's buffer pedal (any NOT 'true bypass ***t, i.e. any of 'cough!') is good advice but. An amp with the industry standard 'high and low' input jacks causes the input Z to descend to 68k or less. This is not generally known or noticed by guitarists which means 'The Magic Meg' is not as important as peeps think.

If both inputs have plugs in them (even when one is being used as a daisy-chain 'output') the input impedance is still 1M because the grounding switch in the high input is open. It's only if you use the low input by itself that the input impedance is lowered to 68K.

Voxman

I wonder if you just need an ABY box that will let you select either or both amps.  The Radial tonebone Bigshot ABY is true by pass & has a foot switch to kick in both amps, plus a second 'toggle' footswitch to alternate between either amp.  There's also a transformer built in to eliminate ground loops, and a 180 polarity reverse switch to ensure the two amps are in phase with each other, plus a tuner input.  £89 from Andertons:

https://www.andertons.co.uk/p/BIGSHOTABY/aby-and-switchers/radial-tonebone-bigshot-true-bypass-aby-pedal

Ossyrocks

Thanks for all the input guys. It does seem like I need some kind of buffered/active pedal in order to preserve the signal when split between two amps.This does irk a little, as everything at the moment is true bypass, although I'm not precious about it anymore.

@Voxman, those pedals are passive, and I think I would still get signal loss? The Radial Twin City is active/buffered so as to preserve the signal. Anyone used one of those?

@thermionic, that looks interesting and specifically says that signal is preserved as it is active. The price is very cheap! Are there any sacrifices being made here that I should be aware of? What's the quality of Bright Onion pedals like?

Thanks,
Rob.

ICBM

Ossyrocks said:

It does seem like I need some kind of buffered/active pedal in order to preserve the signal when split between two amps.This does irk a little, as everything at the moment is true bypass, although I'm not precious about it anymore.

This is exactly one of the major problems with true bypass - it means the guitar is loaded by everything that follows the pedals when they're turned off. 

wayneirie

I have the bright onion, No problems to report. Really useful. Good fun as well. trying effects pedals with different amps having one set clean and one overdriven. Wet/dry etc. One of the best guitar related purchases I've made.

Ossyrocks

wayneirie said:

I have the bright onion, No problems to report. Really useful. Good fun as well. trying effects pedals with different amps having one set clean and one overdriven. Wet/dry etc. One of the best guitar related purchases I've made.

@wayneirie ; Good to know. What's the build quality like? How does it look inside?

wayneirie

Its pretty neat @Ossyrocks ;, http://i1181.photobucket.com/albums/x434/wayne_irie/IMG_1319.jpg

Ossyrocks

@wayneirie looking good !

wayneirie

I know they're cheap but the stuff seems good quality, transformer isolated Phase, ground Lift switches. I remember seeing  on one of those rig rundowns. they had some type of(Bright Onion) pedal switching device in the chilli peppers guitarists ridiculous pedal board. 

IvisonGuitars

@Ossyrocks I have a Bright Onion ABY, replaced a Lehle Dual on my board. Not as bomb proof admittedly but still great quality and a 3rd of the size! Never had Ground/phase issues and I regularly run 2 amps with it. 

RiftAmps

+1 on the Bright Onion, I've put it through all sorts of abuse and it's still going strong. Works perfectly.

DISCLAIMER: James @ Bright Onion manufactures my footswitches for me, so there is some affiliation there.

Trotter

Voxman said:

I wonder if you just need an ABY box that will let you select either or both amps.  The Radial tonebone Bigshot ABY is true by pass & has a foot switch to kick in both amps, plus a second 'toggle' footswitch to alternate between either amp.  There's also a transformer built in to eliminate ground loops, and a 180 polarity reverse switch to ensure the two amps are in phase with each other, plus a tuner input.  £89 from Andertons:

https://www.andertons.co.uk/p/BIGSHOTABY/aby-and-switchers/radial-tonebone-bigshot-true-bypass-aby-pedal

I've been touring one of these forever. If you switch between amps then the lack of status LED's is a minor inconvenience but as I use two amps that are always on it's fine for me. Does everything I have ever needed and I think mine was about £30 secondhand! 

JohnPerry

I've had various Lehles over the years and had the Radial ABY too but I did lose a little signal with that. Bought the Radial Twin City instead and it's perfect.