So, I got myself a Tele with a mystery...

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thermionicthermionic Frets: 9499
edited May 2017 in Guitar
I've been looking for a black Classic 60s Tele for a while, and I won the bidding on one on ebay about a week ago. It arrived in overall pretty good condition, but with corroded, dead strings and a really high action. I was looking forward to giving it the usual thermionic clean and setup but noticed that it looked like the ferrules were missing. Seemed like the ball ends were just held in the wood. Well, they sometimes have a tendency to fall out. But I couldn't see bare wood where a ferrule might have been, just a hole surrounded by black paint. It looked like it was supposed to be like that.

So anyway, I decide I need ferrules in there before I put new strings on. Rather than order online and wait, I popped into the local guitar shop on Saturday afternoon and picked up a pack of Fender Tele ferrules (they have a rack of Fender parts, very useful to be able to pop in and get genuine spares like that). When I took the old strings off, it was clear that the hole was far too narrow to accept a ferrule. This reinforced my idea that somehow this was deliberate, and yet, I'd never heard of a Tele with no ferrules. It looked like the layers of paint on the sides of the hole had effectively narrowed the aperture, and I needed to ream it out, just take the paint off to open it up to the right diameter. A drill bit on a very slow speed should do it...

As I was doing this, I heard a crack, the paint chipped, and this happened:

http://i.imgur.com/qJ3PvJg.jpg

OK, there are ferrules there, but they're under a layer of paint. Why would they put the ferrules in before painting the body?

I couldn't miss the glaring redness around the hole though.

http://i.imgur.com/7Rc8SU4.jpg

Under a magnifying glass, that's a lovely Candy Apple Red! I scraped the black paint off the remaining ferrules.

So it was a CAR body, the ferrules were inserted, then they decided to paint over it in black and didn't bother taking the ferrules out first. I think CAR for the Classic 60s Tele is a relatively recent thing (this is a 2000) and they were originally available only in black or white. The Muddy Waters Tele was around at that time, and was basically a MIM Classic 60s in CAR but with different hardware, so in theory the body could have been destined for a Muddy Waters Tele originally. However there's no evidence of the extra pickguard screw hole that a Muddy Waters Tele would have.

How common is a factory overspray in MIM Fenders?
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Comments

  • Winny_PoohWinny_Pooh Frets: 7732
    edited May 2017
    This is very odd. Is this a genuine tele? Look under the pickguard and see if there are the CNC mounting holes.
    A friend of mine once bought a faked MIM standard which goes to show that even non US guitars are being replicated.

    Found this:
    http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&id=272653616821&alt=web

    Neck is genuine, bridge is fine, it's the body I'm not sure about. 
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  • thermionicthermionic Frets: 9499
    edited May 2017
    Yes it's that one. No CNC holes, but then my 50s Tele and 60s Strat don't have them either (I just took the pickguard off my 50s Tele to check). I'll have a closer look at any markings in the neck pocket the next time I have reason to take the neck off, but I have no reason to suspect the body is fake. Why would a faker spray over a CAR body rather than just try and pass it off as it is?
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  • FunkfingersFunkfingers Frets: 14323
    I'd never heard of a Tele with no ferrules.
    Tele with either a "top loader" traditional bridge or a factory Bigsby would not be drilled for through stringing. Hence, no need for ferrules.

    Perhaps, somebody made an amateurish attempt to drill their own stringing and ferrule holes, damaged the original paint then felt the need to disguise this?
    Be seeing you.
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  • WezVWezV Frets: 16546
    I once made a tele with an ebony string block instead of ferrules.   Reading your post has me worried someone might try similar on that at some point
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  • ICBMICBM Frets: 71960
    Yes it's that one. No CNC holes, but then my 50s Tele and 60s Strat don't have them either (I just took the pickguard off my 50s Tele to check). I'll have a closer look at any markings in the neck pocket the next time I have reason to take the neck off, but I have no reason to suspect the body is fake. Why would a faker spray over a CAR body rather than just try and pass it off as it is?
    Probably because it's been damaged somewhere, and repaired before painting over the whole thing in black to cover it. It's hard to match in a repair with a non-nitro finish.

    @MattFGBI will know for sure, but I think it's highly unlikely that's a Fender factory job even if the body is genuine.

    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski

    "Just because I don't care, doesn't mean I don't understand." - Homer Simpson

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  • stickyfiddlestickyfiddle Frets: 26753
    My strat is a similar story. Not the ferrule thing, but it's a Squier standard body in Sherwood Green that clearly has a layer of CAR underneath
    The Assumptions - UAE party band for all your rock & soul desires
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  • GassageGassage Frets: 30826
    With a Mystery you say?

    Staytrem is better.

    *An Official Foo-Approved guitarist since Sept 2023.

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  • impmannimpmann Frets: 12646
    Factory repaints are commonplace - there are *LOTS* of black Variax V300s out there with factory red paint underneath. This was due to the factory making too many red ones and having to refinish pre-painted bodies to satisfy orders.

    Painting over the ferules is an odd one though. Y'see, the ferules will be installed as part of the final build. If it were a paint flaw issue that was being rectified, that is likely to be pre installation of the ferules. Ditto repainting to satisfy orders.

    Inside the cavity there should be a bar code label - and some (not all) Mexican guitars have the serial number quoted on this, if there is one does it match the neck?

    If not, it could be a partcaster...
    Never Ever Bloody Anything Ever.

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  • thermionicthermionic Frets: 9499
    edited May 2017

    I agree that the ferrules would be one of the last things to be done (probably just before stringing up, as they have a tendency to fall out). Ditto the pickguard screw holes, which would fit in with my theory that it's a Muddy body repurposed at some point. I did some digging about the Muddy Waters Tele, they came out at around this time but the body wood was ash, not alder.

    There's nothing about the black paint that makes me think it's anything other than a factory job. Certainly nothing amateur about it. It has the same look and feel as all the other MIM Fenders I've owned.

    I'll post a photo of the cavity later on tonight...


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  • Winny_PoohWinny_Pooh Frets: 7732
    My 50's classic body had the barcode under the bridge pickup FWIW
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  • bbill335bbill335 Frets: 1368
    If it doesn't have the CNC holes, it probably isn't an MIM 60s body.

    Is it just the light in those eBay pics or does the area around the strap button/neck join/bass side of the body look too round? 
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  • MattFGBIMattFGBI Frets: 1602
    Ok, this was originally candy apple red..... Serial number brings this up on our system: 

    60's TELECASTER RW CAR W/GIG.  that's what we sold it as.  The black paint is nothing do do with Fender!

    Someone has attempted a "respray" here....
    This is not an official response. 

    contactemea@fender.com 


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  • thermionicthermionic Frets: 9499
    Wow, many thanks for the info @MattFGBI. I would never have thought it, the black looks and feels like the Fender poly finishes I know. Also, I didn't realise Classic 60s Teles came in CAR in 2000. Then again, if it was a factory overspray, they wouldn't have painted over the damn ferrules, so that was a bit suspicious.

    Here's a pic of the neck pocket FWIW:

    http://i.imgur.com/ECkxxCy.jpg
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  • underdogunderdog Frets: 8334
    Who in their right mind would spray over candy apple red? Sick bastards :D
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  • ICBMICBM Frets: 71960

    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski

    "Just because I don't care, doesn't mean I don't understand." - Homer Simpson

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  • BridgehouseBridgehouse Frets: 24579
    underdog said:
    Who in their right mind would spray over candy apple red? Sick bastards :D
    They wanted to make a gothcaster.


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  • FunkfingersFunkfingers Frets: 14323
    underdog said:
    Who in their right mind would spray over candy apple red? Sick bastards :D
    Needs a Jazzmaster vibrato. 
    Be seeing you.
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  • PonchoGregPonchoGreg Frets: 764
    That reminds me: why would Fender stop doing the Classic series in what should arguably be pretty popular finishes? For instance I've got a 2004 60s strat in Olympic white, which is a pretty quintessential colour combo for strats of that era, and I think Fender stopped doing them in that colour after that - can't find many online. Same for the CAR Tele by the looks of it. Strikes me as a weird business decision: surely the more classic colours available, the more they'd sell??
    Click here to see me butchering some classic solos!
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  • professorbenprofessorben Frets: 5105
    underdog said:
    Who in their right mind would spray over candy apple red? Sick bastards :D
    They wanted to make a gothcaster.


    I am soooo into that. 
    " Why does it smell of bum?" Mrs Professorben.
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