Timeline VS Nemesis VS DD-500

Drew_TNBD

No sound clips right now, but a quick write-up:

BBD - Nemesis and Timeline can do clean and dirty BBD tones. Boss can only really do dirty BBD tones. The Boss modulation can go a lot faster than the other two for interesting tremolo/vibrato tones.

Reverse - Timeline 8th tap division matches Boss and Nemesis 1/4th tap division.

Slow Attack - Nemesis doesn't have it from what I can tell. The Boss is fairly latent when you turn the direct signal all the way off. Timeline is the only one that can do swells with this kind of algorithm.

Oscillation - Only the Timeline can oscillation and do crazy feedback noises when holding down the switch. The other two require you to use an expression pedal to control the feedback control.

Reverse + Forwards sounds - Boss requires A+B simultaneous mode with a forwards and reverse patch on each. Parallel only, no series ability. Nemesis Double Helix can be set to unison mode, which means no pitch shifting. So it gives you a reverse + forwards in a single patch. Timeline Ice mode can do a similar thing, but the interval doesn't have a unison mode, only + or - 25cents. Which sounds cool, but it does introduce a bit of pitch warbling.

Dual - Timeline is much more flexible and easier to understand. Proper time ratios whereas the Boss has percentage of the first delay. Nemesis is essentially software only if you want dual delays. Annoying to setup.

Pattern - Timeline has smear parameter. Boss and Timeline quite close in vibe. Nemesis only has 8 rhythms, no user rhythms like the Boss. You choose them on a knob on the Nemesis too, so it's not as user friendly.

Shimmer - Boss is robotic sounding. Sounds broken. Timeline is more ethereal sounding than the Nemesis but both are good. Nemesis pitch options are software only.

The Timeline grit knob works in all modes. The Nemesis has distortion, bit-rate and sample-rate reduction in all modes, but is only available from the software editor. Boss has hidden saturation on several modes, but you get no user control.

Fretwired

Interesting .. I have a Timeline which does everything I'll ever need. I also have the TC Electronic Triple Delay which is really cool .. great ambient tones.

monquixote

So which one would you put on your board?

Drew_TNBD

monquixote said:

So which one would you put on your board?

That's a tough question. Very tough.

As I see it:

Nemesis Pros:

- I think the sounds slightly edge the Boss in the situations I care about.
- Particularly like the reverse algorithm, because it's the only one that allows you to have multiple 'layers' to the reverse - it's thicker and lusher because of this.
- Smaller footprint.

Nemesis Cons:

- Limited number of presets without adding other controls. No preset number or name readout. So more difficult to use in a live situation.
- No trails when switching from one preset to another. Only trails when bypassing.
- None of the algorithms will do the 'hold switch to oscillate' thing, which is a sound I am building a song around right now!
- No looper.

Boss DD-500 Pros:

- Two delay patches at once. So with two dual delays, it'll do 4 delays at once by itself, with global tap tempo!
- Trails when switching banks
- Front of the pedal is angled so tapping in the tempo is easier with this pedal
- It generates midi clock which you can send to other pedals to keep them in the sync - the other two don't do this.
- Biggest display, meaning better tempo readouts and better name readouts.

Boss DD-500 Cons:

- If you want a triplet delay and a quarter note delay across two patches, the global tap tempo doesn't work properly - whichever delay was last visible will dictate the timing.
- Because there is no global wet/dry mix and only two level controls (one which is buried in the menu) in a pinch it's hard to adjust the relative blend between your dry guitar and the delayed sound.
- Again, I think on some of the sounds I use it isn't the best pedal. Bit vanilla.

Timeline Pros:

- Best in class sounds I think.
- The best balance between presenting features and making it easy to use. The Nemesis off-loads too much of it's coolness to the software editor, and the Boss has ganky menus. The Timeline is easier to dial in.
- Proper wet/dry mix that feels nicely balanced.
- Being able to add a bit of distortion to any sound is something I didn't realise I missed, but now I have my second Timeline I realise I missed not having it on the other two pedals

Timeline Cons:

- Wont transmit midi clock.
- Display readout is limiting.

mellowsun

Great write up, thanks. After selling my TL I'm after another delay. Hoping to get a DIG but considering other options. The TL was overkill but the sounds were unbeatable.

Drew_TNBD

mellowsun said:

Great write up, thanks. After selling my TL I'm after another delay. Hoping to get a DIG but considering other options. The TL was overkill but the sounds were unbeatable.

What kind of sounds are you after?

Jonathanthomas83

I completely disagree that the TL is best in class sound wise. I'm a big fan of the Nemesis for its sound. The digital algo is infinitely more clear and defined. The tape was really good on it. And the analog setting on there was incredible.

Its all subjective, of course. And the Nemesis definitely isn't perfect but I personally don't think the TL beats it from a tone perspective.

mellowsun

Drew_TNBD said:

What kind of sounds are you after?

For example,
 a general wash delay that sits well in the mix,
 a crystal clear multitap stereo ping-pong delay (couldn't really do this either TL),
 a 12 bit delay like I used to have with the Midiverb

Teetonetal

Interesting thoughts @Drew_TNBD I certainly agree with your thoughts on the DD500 regarding those specific sounds. But it's two big wins are midi clock and spillover... I like the pedal alot, and as a m/fx there is more that I do like vs don't but I really wish reverse and shimmer were better.

Jonathanthomas83

mellowsun said:

Drew_TNBD said:

What kind of sounds are you after?

For example,
 a general wash delay that sits well in the mix,
 a crystal clear multitap stereo ping-pong delay (couldn't really do this either TL),
 a 12 bit delay like I used to have with the Midiverb

I think you're on the right track with the DIG, it's perfect for all that, mate.

I'm sorry about all that mess up, mate.

shuikit

In case you're not aware, Source Audio have just released the first version of a pc based editor for the Nemesis which makes editing settings easier than just the app.  You can also do dual delay without the app/editor by holding the control button and turning one of the knobs, can't remember which one, yes it's a faff but it can be done without the app if you want.

Fretwired

mellowsun said:

Drew_TNBD said:

What kind of sounds are you after?

For example,
 a general wash delay that sits well in the mix,
 a crystal clear multitap stereo ping-pong delay (couldn't really do this either TL),
 a 12 bit delay like I used to have with the Midiverb

Have you checked out the TC delays .. I have the Triple Delay - it's big but it has a great wash, lovely ping pong and a lo-fi delay that sounds like 12 bit.

Fretwired

Great review Drew. You should do it for a living ... ;-)

Drew_TNBD

shuikit said:

In case you're not aware, Source Audio have just released the first version of a pc based editor for the Nemesis which makes editing settings easier than just the app.  You can also do dual delay without the app/editor by holding the control button and turning one of the knobs, can't remember which one, yes it's a faff but it can be done without the app if you want.

Yep! I've been using it alongside the Boss and the Strymon one. The Strymon editor is more digestible than the other two but it does reveal how limited their algorithms are - two 'additional' parameters on a digital delay for example. Whereas the Nemesis editor is all over the shop right now (because it's an early alpha) and it doesn't 'look' particularly good. But it does show you just how capable it is as a pedal.

Fretwired said:

Great review Drew. You should do it for a living ... ;-)

HA! Right now I should probably be doing anything other than music for a living!

VJIves

Isn't the Timeline like, £200 more than the other two? I'd hope it had more to offer! I got a Nemesis as an alternative to an El Capistan or a Dig, I always thought of the TL as being the next tier up from those.

EricTheWeary

VJIves said:

Isn't the Timeline like, £200 more than the other two? I'd hope it had more to offer! I got a Nemesis as an alternative to an El Capistan or a Dig, I always thought of the TL as being the next tier up from those.

It's a lot more expensive although I guess for a 'pro' rig it's what works best regardless of cost (or maybe it's not).

Bit of an idle thought: the Timeline is about half the price of a Helix LT and I wondered how that (or any posh modeller) compared in terms of delays/ multiple delays? 

Drew_TNBD

Fretwired said:

mellowsun said:

Drew_TNBD said:

What kind of sounds are you after?

For example,
 a general wash delay that sits well in the mix,
 a crystal clear multitap stereo ping-pong delay (couldn't really do this either TL),
 a 12 bit delay like I used to have with the Midiverb

Have you checked out the TC delays .. I have the Triple Delay - it's big but it has a great wash, lovely ping pong and a lo-fi delay that sounds like 12 bit.

On paper the TC Triple Delay is *exactly* what I need. But they never bothered to listen to the overwhelming majority of people who wanted a proper global tap tempo that worked with all engines regardless of whether they were bypassed or not. So it failed hard in my opinion. Their Space Echo algorithm is one of the best though!

VJIves said:

Isn't the Timeline like, £200 more than the other two? I'd hope it had more to offer! I got a Nemesis as an alternative to an El Capistan or a Dig, I always thought of the TL as being the next tier up from those.

You're certainly valid in your assessment. For the price the Timeline doesn't actually do much more than the Nemesis or DD-500. And those pedals are half the price almost. I paid £286 for my Nemesis. Bargain.

Jonathanthomas83 said:

I completely disagree that the TL is best in class sound wise. I'm a big fan of the Nemesis for its sound. The digital algo is infinitely more clear and defined. The tape was really good on it. And the analog setting on there was incredible.

Its all subjective, of course. And the Nemesis definitely isn't perfect but I personally don't think the TL beats it from a tone perspective.

As my write up kind of indicates, each of them have strengths. I actually would struggle to confidentally say that the Timeline is better than the Nemesis in all occasions. Likewise for the Boss. It's very hard to pick a favourite, and even harder to give them 1st, 2nd, and 3rd positions.

mellowsun said:

Drew_TNBD said:

What kind of sounds are you after?

For example,
 a general wash delay that sits well in the mix,
 a crystal clear multitap stereo ping-pong delay (couldn't really do this either TL),
 a 12 bit delay like I used to have with the Midiverb

General wash type stuff, I'd say a good analog delay. Something cheap like the Ibanez DE-7 would do it. For the multi-tap I would suggest the Nemesis or even the Digitech Timebender. For the 12bit delay stuff you might want to grab an old Boss DD-2, which is 12bit.

Drew_TNBD

EricTheWeary said:

Bit of an idle thought: the Timeline is about half the price of a Helix LT and I wondered how that (or any posh modeller) compared in terms of delays/ multiple delays? 

For stacking delays and realtime control the Helix absolutely wipes the floor with any of these pedals. I was playing about with expression pedals yesterday and the Timeline and I found it a bit confusing. I guess the lack of proper visual feedback on the pedal harms that side of things.

The Helix algorithm quality is right up there with the rest of them, no doubt. In fact the Adriatic Delay on the Helix is what made me pick up another Timeline - I wanted to see if I could get a similar tone when cracking the feedback parameter (oscillation) from the Timeline as I do the Adriatic Delay. It gets close for sure.

Jonathanthomas83

VJIves said:

Isn't the Timeline like, £200 more than the other two? I'd hope it had more to offer! I got a Nemesis as an alternative to an El Capistan or a Dig, I always thought of the TL as being the next tier up from those.

In theory yes, it should be. But IMO it isn't. The individual pedals strengths lie in their tone. What they lack in features, they certainly make up for in tone, in abundance. The El Cap and DIG are infinitely nicer sounding than their respective algorithms on the TL, again IMO. But they are severely handicapped. 

Delays and my issues with them was a huge reason why I ditched the lot and went for 100% digital rig.

Drew_TNBD

One of these is gonna be on the chopping block soon... and I'm pretty sure it'll be the Boss!!

BintyTwanger77

My vote would definitely be for the Timeline. I love the DUI, the tape, analogue and filter modes are superb, the oscillate/hold function, ease of use, tweakability... it's seen off so many other delays. At one point I was considering the new Empress delay, but not bothering, the Timeline covers everything for me.