New Gibson Customs...why richlite

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BlaendulaisBlaendulais Frets: 3316
http://www.musicradar.com/news/gibsons-modern-double-cut-finally-surfaces-along-with-six-new-black-and-gold-custom-guitars

Why richlite - i know the difficulties with ebony but surely there are other alternatives? A a paper composite - how long does it last?

Apologies if this has been much in the discussion previously!
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Comments

  • underdogunderdog Frets: 8334
    Problems with ebony and now with rosewood too. 
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  • SporkySporky Frets: 27578
    A a paper composite - how long does it last?
    Compositionally it's pretty much the same as is used for the worktops in most laboratories. It is a lot tougher than wood.

    It machines much like wood, it rings like a bit of wood, it's very consistent... just a shame it's so dull looking.
    "[Sporky] brings a certain vibe and dignity to the forum."
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  • webrthomsonwebrthomson Frets: 1029
    I wonder if this is to do with Gibson getting raided a few times by the US justice department - certainly one of those was about Ebony?
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  • WhitecatWhitecat Frets: 5378
    edited May 2017
    Gibson Custom occasionally still uses real ebony but they're either using it as a "premium product" and hence an excuse to uncharge like crazy or they are being super careful about provenance as they don't want to get raided again.

    Really, I can't see a legit excuse that's obvious, other than the greed angle. Taylor mills most of the world's easily moveable ebony and they sell to everyone, other manufacturers and wood suppliers alike (as well as using it for themselves of course). Maybe Henry J pissed off Bob T somewhere along the line and they got cut off...
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  • WezVWezV Frets: 16543
    I think it probably is as simple as the fact they would need to go to Taylor for a reliable supply.
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  • ICBMICBM Frets: 71956
    I bet they wish they hadn't used up all that 'second rate' ebony on Studios in the 90s now...

    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski

    "Just because I don't care, doesn't mean I don't understand." - Homer Simpson

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  • WezVWezV Frets: 16543
    In fairness,  the current Taylor supply of ebony all would have been considered worse than second rate in the 90's because of the colour variation

    bob's done a lot for the acceptance of streaky ebony, but I reckon most custom owners still want solid black.  The obvious answer is to suck up to Taylor and dye the stuff.

    Richlite is okay though.  I just don't find it massively exciting and would need to refret a few more before I am convinced.  I have had a few bits, and the offcuts had none of the strength of ebony and delaminated when I was breaking it up
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  • SassafrasSassafras Frets: 30273
    What was that stuff that Parkers used to have as fretboards?
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  • BucketBucket Frets: 7751
    edited May 2017
    Sassafras said:
    What was that stuff that Parkers used to have as fretboards?
    Phenolic resin I think. Or was it carbon glass?

    I have no issue with that or any other synthetic material for fretboards, if it saves the planet a couple of trees that could otherwise have stayed standing, I'm happy with that. I don't think it makes that much of a difference to the instrument itself.

    Plus, surely if it's a manufactured material it's possible to get a bunch of weird and wonderful finishes from it and make it look cool? You could do a multi-coloured swirly Ibanez with a multi-coloured swirly fretboard, for example.
    - "I'm going to write a very stiff letter. A VERY stiff letter. On cardboard."
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  • BlaendulaisBlaendulais Frets: 3316
    Thanks Guys
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  • FunkfingersFunkfingers Frets: 14321
    Why richlite?
    Cheepnis.


    Be seeing you.
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  • fftcfftc Frets: 559
    edited May 2017
    Bucket said:

    I have no issue with that or any other synthetic material for fretboards, if it saves the planet a couple of trees that could otherwise have stayed standing, I'm happy with that.

    I'm inclined to agree with this, but not on a $4000 Les Paul Custom!
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  • SassafrasSassafras Frets: 30273
    I don't really care what fretboards are made of as long as it works, is sustainable and doesn't displace indigenous tribes.
    They're only guitars FFS.
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  • WezVWezV Frets: 16543
    Sassafras said:
    I don't really care what fretboards are made of as long as it works, is sustainable and doesn't displace indigenous tribes.
    They're only guitars FFS.
    I agree.  But the question for me is whether the sustainable alternative matches the qualities of the original material.

    at this point I still prefer hardwood, even sustainable ones, to paper and resin.

    what we really need is more sustainable woods impregnated with coloured resin. Maple can be any colour you need it to be, and harder than ebony. It has more strength than richlite because of the wood grain.


    are these resin and wood/paper solutions actually better for the environment? I don't actually know
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  • richardhomerrichardhomer Frets: 24793
    I understand the sustainability issue - but you need to have a perspective on this.

    I've manufactured elephants' feet umbrella stands as a sideline for some years - and have got four out of each elephant - but due to the world-wide ban on ivory-trading, I have no option but to simply throw the tusks away.

    It seems a terrible waste to me....
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  • Jez6345789Jez6345789 Frets: 1756
    I think its the Gibson/Taylor thing the old school business adage of never buy from your competitor you only strengthen them. 

    Seems a bit off that you can get Ebony on a Chapman but not a Gibson.

    Hey ho Gibson on so many levels is in denial. 


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  • RandallFlaggRandallFlagg Frets: 13929
    I agree that the Richlite thing puts me right off. So, from reading above then, are manufacturers who offer ebony, using their already owned stocks? PRS, Taylor, Martin etc? Is no new Ebony available?

    Gibson must have run out and lost it all in the Federal raid they suffered some years ago now.


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  • WezVWezV Frets: 16543
    New ebony is available. 

    Bob Taylor took control over a large chunk of the supply and realised a lot of good, but not perfectly black ebony was being left on the forest floors.  It was a ridiculous amount, iirc about 80% was rejected before it left the forest.

    Taylor basically said we can still have ebony, but we need to accept streaks. 

    They now now have a lot of control over the ebony market from source upwards


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  • WezVWezV Frets: 16543
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  • SporkySporky Frets: 27578
    Why richlite?
    Cheepnis.


    It's not mad-cheap.
    "[Sporky] brings a certain vibe and dignity to the forum."
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