Police thugs in action

MatthewShreddery

Emp_Fab said:

MatthewShreddery said:

It does grate on me slightly when so many people think they know how to do the job of the Police better than the Police themselves.

It's hard to understand the situation from the footage given, but those kids seemed like a difficult group to deal with. They appeared very aggressive and confrontational.
On one hand I feel like the kids needed a heavy handed lesson like the one in the video; on the other I feel like the police might've been better to just walk away.

What ? So the act of putting on a police uniform suddenly makes you so much of an expert in policing that nobody else could possibly criticise you for your actions ? !! 

It matters not one jot whether the kids were 'difficult' or 'confrontational'.  It is the job of the police to try to defuse the situation - whoever the subjects are and whatever mood they appear to be in.  It most certainly is not the job of the police to 'teach anyone a lesson'.  They are there to keep the peace and enforce the law - and to do so with an absolute minimum of force.

The morons in the video should have walked away.  They had their arrestee.  But that wasn't enough for them - their little egos had been hurt by children calling them names.  Being as mature as the kids themselves, they had to reestablish their authority - they needed to see the kids accept that they were the bigger boys in the playground.  They needed a little victory for their egos far more than they wanted to keep the peace or enforce the law.

Short-tempered thin-skinned fragile-ego'd people do not make good police officers any more than a stoner with jam-jar glasses makes a good air traffic controller.

When I was a biker in a 'gang' (no, not like that !), we were persecuted by the police constantly, night after night we'd get stopped, bikes checked, the coppers getting their little ego rub by flexing their authoritah etc.  We thought they were all pricks, with the exception of one older guy who took the time to chat to us, have a laugh etc.  We respected him and if he asked us to do something, we did it.  He even organised a talk with slides on the dangers of riding without helmets / badly maintained bikes etc in the community centre.  It was packed.  Bikers everywhere.  Because we respected him for making the effort to respect us as people.

The wankers in that clip aren't fit to clean his shoes.

Nobody just puts on a uniform and suddenly becomes a police officer. They are highly trained to do the job, so yes, I get irritated by arm chair experts criticising them.

Iamnobody

Legionreturns said:

MatthewShreddery said:

It's hard to understand the situation from the footage given, but those kids seemed like a difficult group to deal with. They appeared very aggressive and confrontational.
On one hand I feel like the kids needed a heavy handed lesson like the one in the video; on the other I feel like the police might've been better to just walk away.

The police I deal with regularly at work, would have sat down with them and had a chat, possibly over ice cream, and talked to them like young adults. It would have worked too. 

Fucking hilarious. Made my day.

I can just imagine the radio call to control...

"Back up required for an escalating public disorder, make it quick and bring the Mr Whippy machine."

Dominic

I do not think they are especially highly trained ……any more so than a tube train driver,Fireman , etc let alone a Paramedic or any customs officer etc
To be frank, most younger police that I have met in the last few years have been downright thick ,badly spoken and seemingly undereducated ……..I think there is quite a low common denominator at rank and file level.

Legionreturns

MatthewShreddery said:

Nobody just puts on a uniform and suddenly becomes a police officer. They are highly trained to do the job, so yes, I get irritated by arm chair experts criticising them.

Police training gives you the basic tools for dealing with certain situations. It doesn't give you empathy, common sense or an ability to relate to children and young adults.

See exhibit A

Legionreturns

Iamnobody said:

Fucking hilarious. Made my day.

I can just imagine the radio call to control...

"Back up required for an escalating public disorder, make it quick and bring the Mr Whippy machine."

It sounds strange, but by building up a good natured relationship with the problem kids, they are able to do this without calling in backup. The kids know which officers to trust and talk to. Even some of mine that have done time have respect for certain officers and would happily talk to them. It's called seeing the individual behind the behavior. 

fftc

Emp_Fab said:

Short-tempered thin-skinned fragile-ego'd people do not make good police officers any more than a stoner with jam-jar glasses makes a good air traffic controller.

As succinct an explanation of why I am neither a Police officer or an air traffic controller as you will ever find!


Some Police officers astound me with their ability to de-escalate and keep calm. Others are arses, but bear in mind that they are all human and have good days and bad days. The hope is that on their bad days they don't get it too wrong, and if they do there are processes in place to address the problems.

That aside, a lot of kids do need to learn some respect it seems, but I'm not sure fear is the best method of teaching it.

Emp_Fab

MatthewShreddery said:

Nobody just puts on a uniform and suddenly becomes a police officer. They are highly trained to do the job, so yes, I get irritated by arm chair experts criticising them.

Highly trained ??  I suppose you'll be telling me that they weed out all the psychopathic nutters at the induction day too, so only the brightest, finest, most capable candidates make it through to wear the badge ?

I know what you're saying, but having blind faith that just because someone is in a position of authority they are automatically beyond reproach is ridiculous.

Iamnobody

Legionreturns said:

Iamnobody said:

Fucking hilarious. Made my day.

I can just imagine the radio call to control...

"Back up required for an escalating public disorder, make it quick and bring the Mr Whippy machine."

It sounds strange, but by building up a good natured relationship with the problem kids, they are able to do this without calling in backup. The kids know which officers to trust and talk to. Even some of mine that have done time have respect for certain officers and would happily talk to them. It's called seeing the individual behind the behavior. 

I'm sure that soft(y top) approach works for the community stuff in one on one situations, or perhaps with known/ repeat offenders.

When the camera starts rolling here the Bobby is surrounded and being intimidated by a large group - albeit youngsters. It's already gone beyond the sit down and talk stage.

Fretwired

This is worrying ....

Thousands of police officers across the UK have not had up-to-date background checks to ensure they are suitable to serve.

Figures reveal 90% of officers employed by one force have not been vetted in line with current policy.

Vetting aims to help prevent corruption in the police by checking an officer or potential officer's background.

Her Majesty's Inspector of Constabulary Mike Cunningham said forces "need to address this matter urgently".

Responding to a request from the BBC under the Freedom of Information (FoI) Act, Northumbria Police admitted almost 3,000 or nine out of ten of its officers still had not been vetted in line with the most recent policy.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cornwall-39206326

Babones

Unbelievable! People STILL filming vertically on their phones!

Legionreturns

Iamnobody said:

Legionreturns said:

Iamnobody said:

Fucking hilarious. Made my day.

I can just imagine the radio call to control...

"Back up required for an escalating public disorder, make it quick and bring the Mr Whippy machine."

It sounds strange, but by building up a good natured relationship with the problem kids, they are able to do this without calling in backup. The kids know which officers to trust and talk to. Even some of mine that have done time have respect for certain officers and would happily talk to them. It's called seeing the individual behind the behavior. 

I'm sure that soft(y top) approach works for the community stuff in one on one situations, or perhaps with known/ repeat offenders.

When the camera starts rolling here the Bobby is surrounded and being intimidated by a large group - albeit youngsters. It's already gone beyond the sit down and talk stage.

That's certainly true, but as has been pointed out, we don't know what's happened immediately before this, let alone over recent months and years. Good community policing is an investment of time by personable officers who can deal with the tough stuff when needed to but do so in a way that means everyone knows where they stand and has faith that they are not going to be a dick. 

The kids I work with would probably make most people cross the road or lock their doors. If you get to know them though, you realise that behind every one of them is a heartbreaking story that doesn't excuse their behavior, but it certainly makes it more understandable. Some of mine would rather spend the nights on the street being anti social with their mates, than go home to a coked up mum or older sibling and get beaten up just for looking at them the wrong way. 

Flink_Poyd

Iamnobody saiD

When the camera starts rolling here the Bobby is surrounded and being intimidated by a large group - albeit youngsters. It's already gone beyond the sit down and talk stage.

I honestly don't think it has, apart from being mouthy they don't appear to have made a credible physical threat.
This same group of officers have probably had to deal with a group of drunks on a Friday night and talked them down without pushing them and yelling at them. 

bingefeller

Some of you guys should be teaching the police de-escalation techniques by the sounds of things.  

ourmaninthenorth

My best mate of 40 odd years is a serving, veteran Police Officer in Manchester. The only thing he talks about is retiring in 22 months, 8 days, 19 hours and 4 minutes. 

Men like him perhaps could come back as civilians and teach these crackerjacks a few simple lessons in how to police. 

Legionreturns

De escalation is my bread and butter, so I can talk about it with authority. 

Viable tools you can use include, but are not limited to: 

Taking a step back and not showing aggressive body language
Talking calmly and requesting that they do the same
Using humour
Asking open, non accusatory questions
If all of these fail, things can go one of two ways. First I would change the dynamic by tagging in someone else (We do this all the time, you'd be amazed at the difference a change of face makes. The person they've had a problem with us no longer involved) 
If that doesn't work, and there really is no other alternative because people or property are in danger, we might restrain for as short a time as possible and get the young person somewhere safe and away from others. Usually within 5 minutes of this happening they have calmed down. You can combine tks with a tag. The person or people doing the restraint immediately tag out and someone who hasn't been involved comes in to the room to take over and talk when they're ready.

These are a mixture of taught skills and soft skills. In my view it should be mandatory for all community police to be trained and assessed in these skills. 

Never, and I can't believe I'm having to say this, should you threaten or swear. You should always be the one on control and demonstrating that you are. 

Showing kids like this that you think the problem can be solved with violence, intimidation and confrontation is not a good idea. 

Bygone_Tones

Clearly saw one girl doing a flying kick at one of the policemen. I think once that line has been broken and kicks and punches are getting thrown at the police, its time to take things up a notch.

Sporky

Bygone_Tones said:

Clearly saw one girl doing a flying kick at one of the policemen. I think once that line has been broken and kicks and punches are getting thrown at the police, its time to take things up a notch.

Was that before the chap ran in shouting "motherfucker"?

WezV

Legionreturns said:

De escalation is my bread and butter, so I can talk about it with authority. 

Viable tools you can use include, but are not limited to: 

Taking a step back and not showing aggressive body language
Talking calmly and requesting that they do the same
Using humour
Asking open, non accusatory questions
If all of these fail, things can go one of two ways. First I would change the dynamic by tagging in someone else (We do this all the time, you'd be amazed at the difference a change of face makes. The person they've had a problem with us no longer involved) 
If that doesn't work, and there really is no other alternative because people or property are in danger, we might restrain for as short a time as possible and get the young person somewhere safe and away from others. Usually within 5 minutes of this happening they have calmed down. You can combine tks with a tag. The person or people doing the restraint immediately tag out and someone who hasn't been involved comes in to the room to take over and talk when they're ready.

These are a mixture of taught skills and soft skills. In my view it should be mandatory for all community police to be trained and assessed in these skills. 

Never, and I can't believe I'm having to say this, should you threaten or swear. You should always be the one on control and demonstrating that you are. 

Showing kids like this that you think the problem can be solved with violence, intimidation and confrontation is not a good idea. 

And then occasionally, despite the best intentions and all the training, it all goes pear shaped anyway.


i worked as a teaching assistant with 14+ students for ten years before becoming a teacher myself.  I have seen a lot of brilliant teachers have very bad days and I have been there myself.  

i don't do it now.  In all honesty, I knew I was only ever one bad day away from a situation like this

Funkfingers

Throughout the video recording, it is possible to hear the youths asserting their entitlement to not be manhandled by law enforcement officers. They appear knowledgable of their rights and entitlements. At the same time, they seem to have no clue whatsoever about their own social responsibilities. Hence, cries of, "don't touch me," despite of everything that they have already done to provoke. (Some members of a well-known American Pickup User Group forum often refer to the millennial generation as "snowflake" and "teacup".)

Of one thing, I am certain. Strike or kick one law enforcement officer and, somewhere between your arrest and the police station, the compliment will be returned several times over. (No cameras in the van.)

I'm not saying that I agree with this but it is what happens. 



EDIT: One surprising aspect of the video recording is that the full-time law enforcement officers did not "neutralise" the person with the camera at the earliest opportunity. 

bingefeller

Legionreturns said:

De escalation is my bread and butter, so I can talk about it with authority. 

Viable tools you can use include, but are not limited to: 

Taking a step back and not showing aggressive body language
Talking calmly and requesting that they do the same
Using humour
Asking open, non accusatory questions
If all of these fail, things can go one of two ways. First I would change the dynamic by tagging in someone else (We do this all the time, you'd be amazed at the difference a change of face makes. The person they've had a problem with us no longer involved) 
If that doesn't work, and there really is no other alternative because people or property are in danger, we might restrain for as short a time as possible and get the young person somewhere safe and away from others. Usually within 5 minutes of this happening they have calmed down. You can combine tks with a tag. The person or people doing the restraint immediately tag out and someone who hasn't been involved comes in to the room to take over and talk when they're ready.

These are a mixture of taught skills and soft skills. In my view it should be mandatory for all community police to be trained and assessed in these skills. 

Never, and I can't believe I'm having to say this, should you threaten or swear. You should always be the one on control and demonstrating that you are. 

Showing kids like this that you think the problem can be solved with violence, intimidation and confrontation is not a good idea. 

how do you know the police aren't trained in those skills?