Openback vs closed back

What's Hot
Axe_meisterAxe_meister Frets: 4612
I use a Sansamp PSA1 pre-amp with a boogie 50/50 power amp also an Egnator tweaker. All though a G-system to control the whole thing+FX+Own pedal switching.
Now I can never quite get my guitar to sing like I want it to, it just sounds a little bland. Now I'm wondering, could it be my Marshall 1936 2X12 Cabs?
Should I just replace the speakers with some Greenbacks or similar or replace the the cabs with open back cabs?
I almost regret selling my old Fender Jnr. Pro which had a wonderfull tone out of a 10" open backed speaker.
Most of my playing is at home, I run in stereo.
I'm also considering a Helix to simplify the whole setup and get rid of the cable clutter. So what would work best with a moddeling setup, closeback or openback.
Obviously I could go full range, but now again I like to grab the Egnator and a cab and play with mates.
0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom

Comments

  • ICBMICBM Frets: 71960
    The 1936 does not sing. It bellows if you push it hard enough, and whimpers if you don't.

    The G12T-75 speakers are part of the problem - they're quite hollow-sounding, boomy and buzzy - but the cabinet is a big part of it too, especially if it's one of the MDF ones. (They have recently returned to using ply, and the early ones were, but most are MDF.)

    Personally I would replace the cabs with something higher quality, regardless of the speakers or whether it's open or closed - even the cheap Harley Benton G212V (ply closed-back with V30 speakers) is an improvement, but you can do better than that if you want to spend a bit more.

    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski

    "Just because I don't care, doesn't mean I don't understand." - Homer Simpson

    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
  • octatonicoctatonic Frets: 33725
    ^^^ +1.

    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
  • SassafrasSassafras Frets: 30273
    I can't get used to closed back cabs. They always sound a bit muffled to me.
    I've usually converted every cab I've had to an open back or at least partially open. I prefer the more airy, wider range sound of open backs. It just suits the sort of stuff I play.
    1reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 1reaction image Wisdom
  • fretmeisterfretmeister Frets: 23964
    What the OP needs is a Zilla Studio Pro with the 3 part back so the middle panel can be removed for open back goodness at will.

    I believe there is one for sale in the classifieds. Ahem.
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 1reaction image Wisdom
  • CirrusCirrus Frets: 8481
    Re; Open vs Closed, they can both do things that the other cannot in terms of tone and in the way they fill a room. So either your guitar playing lives in a realm where one is obviously more suited than the other, you compromise on not being able to get *some* of the tones you like, or you own both and switch between them as necessary.
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
  • clarkefanclarkefan Frets: 808
    ICBM said:
    The 1936 does not sing. It bellows if you push it hard enough, and whimpers if you don't.

    The G12T-75 speakers are part of the problem - they're quite hollow-sounding, boomy and buzzy - but the cabinet is a big part of it too, especially if it's one of the MDF ones. (They have recently returned to using ply, and the early ones were, but most are MDF.)

    Personally I would replace the cabs with something higher quality, regardless of the speakers or whether it's open or closed - even the cheap Harley Benton G212V (ply closed-back with V30 speakers) is an improvement, but you can do better than that if you want to spend a bit more.
    Er, I'd say it depends :)

    It's all so subjective.  My (old) 1936 with (old) 75's sings just fine :)  What's "sing" to you may not be sing to me I suppose.  Wouldn't the Benton cab be very similar to an old 1936 anyway?  

    I can't stand V30s either.  These 75's sound so good to me I bought a second set of old ones (vented this time) when I got the chance, just in case.  I've never done that before, it just became a necessity as soon as I heard the cab (thank you
    @TimmyO !)

    For me the main thing that causes "blanding" is effects on top of more effects, no matter what I do with buffers, etc, a lot of effects seem to take something away from the dynamics.


    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
  • ICBMICBM Frets: 71960
    edited June 2017
    clarkefan said:

    Wouldn't the Benton cab be very similar to an old 1936 anyway?
    Not really, it's a heavier-built cab with different dimensions and has internal damping material.

    clarkefan said:

    I can't stand V30s either.  These 75's sound so good to me I bought a second set of old ones (vented this time) when I got the chance, just in case.
    Those are very different speakers from the modern 75s - the vent makes a big difference, and even the older non-vented ones are somewhat different from the current ones - less hollow and buzzy-sounding.

    I'm not a big fan of V30s except with very heavy-sounding amps, where they work really well - but with a more middy amp they're usually too much. The advantage of the HB cab is that they're so cheap you can swap out the V30s and sell them if you don't like them, and almost end up with a free cab.

    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski

    "Just because I don't care, doesn't mean I don't understand." - Homer Simpson

    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
  • clarkefanclarkefan Frets: 808
    Cheers @ICBM for the interesting background on the 75's,  I'll have to install the vented ones and give them a longer workout :)

    Didn't realise the Benton cab was different to 1936 either. 

    @Axe_meister , is the PSA-1 a modeller?  What kind of music are you playing where you're hearing this blandness?  I'm guessing Fender-clean stuff if you're thinking the open/closed back cab is the issue.
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
  • Axe_meisterAxe_meister Frets: 4612
    My 1936's are of mid 90s vintage. Even just with a patch with no effects it just does not give me a full sound with cleans and feels held back with dirt.
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
  • Axe_meisterAxe_meister Frets: 4612
    It's an analogue pre-amp 
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
  • TimmyOTimmyO Frets: 7350
    clarkefan said:
    ICBM said:
    The 1936 does not sing. It bellows if you push it hard enough, and whimpers if you don't.

    The G12T-75 speakers are part of the problem - they're quite hollow-sounding, boomy and buzzy - but the cabinet is a big part of it too, especially if it's one of the MDF ones. (They have recently returned to using ply, and the early ones were, but most are MDF.)

    Personally I would replace the cabs with something higher quality, regardless of the speakers or whether it's open or closed - even the cheap Harley Benton G212V (ply closed-back with V30 speakers) is an improvement, but you can do better than that if you want to spend a bit more.
    Er, I'd say it depends :)

    It's all so subjective.  My (old) 1936 with (old) 75's sings just fine :)  What's "sing" to you may not be sing to me I suppose.  Wouldn't the Benton cab be very similar to an old 1936 anyway?  

    I can't stand V30s either.  These 75's sound so good to me I bought a second set of old ones (vented this time) when I got the chance, just in case.  I've never done that before, it just became a necessity as soon as I heard the cab (thank you
    @TimmyO !)

    For me the main thing that causes "blanding" is effects on top of more effects, no matter what I do with buffers, etc, a lot of effects seem to take something away from the dynamics.


    Yes that cab (or combination of cab and speakers perhaps) was/is just outstanding. If I had the room I'd have just stashed it!
    (It's pretty old - ply - and a few decades worth of blood, beer and mojo may also be playing a part lol) 
    Red ones are better. 
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
  • samldr1984samldr1984 Frets: 32
    I went through various speaker combinations and cabs when I was in a blues/rock covers band and it's amazing the difference they make tonally & for overall volume. My favourite combination was a 1x12 open back with a creamback.

    I started off with a cheaper 1x12 cab with a G12H70 and then  2x12 with G12H70 and a V30 and then another 1x12 with just a V30...the list goes on!!
    The creamback was great as I could crank my amp more in smaller venues.
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
  • VoxmanVoxman Frets: 4718
    edited June 2017
    ICBM said:

    The G12T-75 speakers are part of the problem - they're quite hollow-sounding, boomy and buzzy
    I appreciate some speakers are better suited for 4x12 cabs whilst others work well in combos etc, but I have a G12T75 in my Mk 1 Marshall Valvestate 8080 1x12 combo...sounds really good!  Not hollow, boomy or buzzy, and seems to suit that amp very well indeed.  
    I started out with nothing..... but I've still got most of it left (Seasick Steve)
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
  • ICBMICBM Frets: 71960
    Voxman said:
    ICBM said:

    The G12T-75 speakers are part of the problem - they're quite hollow-sounding, boomy and buzzy
    I appreciate some speakers are better suited for 4x12 cabs whilst others work well in combos etc, but I have a G12T75 in my Mk 1 Marshall Valvestate 8080 1x12 combo...sounds really good!  Not hollow, boomy or buzzy, and seems to suit that amp very well indeed.  
    Ha… it sounds so good with those *because* it's hollow and boomy (and you can dial out the buzz with the amp's powerful EQ) :). I totally agree that the 75 is excellent in these, and other similar amps.

    One reason solid-state amps sound stiff and boxy is because they damp the speaker too much. Fit a speaker which is inherently looser-sounding and the two things cancel each other out quite well, and it sounds good.

    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski

    "Just because I don't care, doesn't mean I don't understand." - Homer Simpson

    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
Sign In or Register to comment.