Are you the keymaster?

Legionreturns

https://m.imgur.com/gallery/FMnDozA

Help me! My newbie brain still can't wrap itself around this. I'm playing a song with a chord progression which consists of Em, G ... Em D ... G,D,C,Em and then back to Em, G. 

It's also played with a capo on the1st. So what key am I playing in? I'm trying to work out some noodling to do over the top but can't seem to find it. Also, should I do my solo with or without a capo? 

Hope someone can help me out! 

Cheers

stickyfiddle

Sounds like Em before the capo, which would make it F minor capo-ed at the first fret (assuming you're talking about chord shapes relative to the capo).

Legionreturns

stickyfiddle said:

Sounds like Em before the capo, which would make it F minor capo-ed at the first fret (assuming you're talking about chord shapes relative to the capo).

Yes the chord shapes are relative to the capo. Thanks, I'll give that a go and see if it sounds right.

viz

Yes, so when you play an em shape with a capo on the first fret, you're actually sounding an fm chord (assuming your guitar isn't detuned. So the song is in fm, and your chords you're ACTUALLY playing are fm, Ab ... fm Eb .... Ab Eb Db fm. 

I can't see the pic but assume this is a piece in fm, so you can solo in fm (which will seem like em if you have a cap and are noodling down at the nut end of the fretboard, and ignore the fretboard dots). 

Legionreturns

It's actually this song (sorry about the bad singing!)

https://cl.ly/000N1f0P001q

...but I'm trying to throw in space for a solo and get something suitable in there, as well as some flavour over the top throughout the rest of the song. Just for more depth / interest. That might make my amateur ramblings make more sense?

(I also need to re record it because I screwed up the timing at the start of the third verse, I know!)

viz

Legionreturns said:

It's actually this song (sorry about the bad singing!) 

https://cl.ly/000N1f0P001q

...but I'm trying to throw in space for a solo and get something suitable in there, as well as some flavour over the top throughout the rest of the song. Just for more depth / interest. That might make my amateur ramblings make more sense?

(I also need to re record it because I screwed up the timing at the start of the third verse, I know!)

Very nice - ok yes so you can do your soloing in fm throughout the lead break. I suggest you use an ibanez jem through a wah pedal and tubescreamer into a 100w stack, plenty of whammy bar and pitched harmonics. 

Legionreturns

viz said:

Very nice - ok yes so you can do your soloing in fm throughout the lead break. I suggest you use an ibanez jem through a wah pedal and tubescreamer into a 100w stack, plenty of whammy bar and pitched harmonics. 

I'm afraid you'll have to settle for either my Epi Les Paul Traditional Pro ii or a PRS SE 245 soap bar both through a Katana and all the various peddle sims it can do... No whammy, but I suspect you were pulling my plonker just a bit. Was going to just put a mild crunch / blues tone and play some echoes of the vocal melody with some slight variations and a bit of sustain

viz

That'd work too

Legionreturns

Thanks for your help folks! I'll post the results, assuming the local cats all survive the experiment!  

slacker

Some suggestions 

Try soloing on the g major scale with the capo on one that's g Sharp major.

Try moving the capo up and singing in various keys it sounds like fm is too low for you.

Oh and I like the song

tony99

a somewhat haunting melody, very good, well done

Legionreturns

It's sadly not my song, it's a great track by Laura Marling. 

https://open.spotify.com/track/4jaJjKNIUfkOVdbNZkmStA

I've done it in the original key because I don't normally sing, I have someone who *can* sing that's going to re record the vocals. I'm only good for Johnny Cash  

riscado

No, I'm the gatekeeper... someone had to do it.

octatonic

There is no Dana, only ZUUL.

Legionreturns

Finally! 

octatonic

We were inching towards it.

thecolourbox

slacker said:

Some suggestions 

Try soloing on the g major scale with the capo on one that's g Sharp major.

As there's only flattened 7ths if you think of it in Em, playing on the G Major scale would probably be the best bet

viz

thecolourbox said:

slacker said:

Some suggestions 

Try soloing on the g major scale with the capo on one that's g Sharp major.

As there's only flattened 7ths if you think of it in Em, playing on the G Major scale would probably be the best bet

@thecolourbox I don't understand this point - can you expand on it? I mean, em and G have the same notes obviously but what's your point about the major 7th? G major's major 7th is just em's major 2nd, and the song is in e minor, not G major (well, f minor but you know what I mean)

What @Legionreturns could do is raise the 7th of the e minor scale, ie. he could play e melodic or harmonic minor scales, if that's what you're leading to in terms of avoiding a minor 7th, but I don't get your point about G major. Cheers

thecolourbox

Sorry yes that probably doesn't read very clearly does it! Sorry about that.

What I mean is, ordinarily I'd say that for something to be in E Minor, I'd expect the 7th note (ie D) to be sharp as part of the Fifth Chord (B) triad, whereas the above chord sequence does not contain a Fifth Chord or therefore any chords to feature that Sharp 7th note, if that makes sense. So Em with a flattened 7th (ie D Natural, not sharp) means to me that the notes you'd be playing fit closer to the G Major scale than Eminor, but starting with E as your 1st (root) note.

Hopefully I've not just made that less clear, happy to be corrected if people think I'm wrong

Legionreturns

I'm clear as mud, but working on it! 

octatonic

Where it starts getting tricky is including chromatic notes.
You can play the major 7th over an Em based harmony, provided you don't resolve to that note.

Chromaticism is what lifts your playing out of the pedestrian.

You can pepper major 7th and b5 intervals into your playing whilst remaining essentially 'in key'.
It has to be done right though, transcribing blues and jazz solos and learning how others have done it successfully is always a more efficient way to do it than trying to run all the permutations.