What DAW are you using, and how would you review it?

sweepy

Logic X here, its ok, not very logical and the visuals are a mess, I ought to try something else I suppose, when I can be arsed 

markv

I got Ableton Live Lite with my audio interface (Focusrite Scarlett Solo) and used that for a bit. I like the UI and the bundled effects etc that I tried were very good. However, the Lite version is limited and the upgrade costs more than I was comfortable spending, given my usage and ability.

Based on numerous comments here I tried Reaper, and subsequently bought it (£34 at the time! A bargain). It does everything I need and way more, and any gaps can be filled, for my basic requirements, with freely available VSTs (The Computer Music plugins are good fun). The UI isn't pretty but functionally it's superb. Plus Kenny Gioa's videos are fantastic.

It's obviously a case of preference, but my feeling was that you choose based on your criteria (mainly price in my case) and then stick with it, because there's so much investment of time required to learn it all that you can't be chopping and changing all the time.

guitarfishbay

It's not that hard to switch. I thought it would be, but if you use a DAW every night for a week or two you'll get used to it. Personally I've also spent a couple of hours watching Groove3 tutorials, which get you started but miss some obvious questions so once you know the basics you need to have a play about to familiarise workflow options.

The other thing I've found helpful is to keep your primary shortcut keys (especially for transport) constant across all DAWs. 

Actually the biggest challenge is language based. When you know how to get from A-B in one program, finding out how to do the same, or reach a suitable outcome, in another requires you to know what the features and workflow processes are called in the new program otherwise a manual and google aren't that much help. Even something as simple as what is this DAW's equivalent IR loader/synth/etc plug called will slow you down initially. But if you stick at it you'll get there.

Definitely demo before buying anything expensive though.

digitalscream

markv said:

The UI isn't pretty but functionally it's superb. 

Did you know you can re-skin it? There are loads of free skins out there. Can't remember which one I'm using, but it's optimised for multiple monitors...I run three monitors, so the default UI doesn't really make much sense.

dilbert

Another Reaper user here based on the incredibly simple interface, it's very intuitive and you can perform just about any function with a right click on your' mouse.

In fact, I'd go so far as to say that if simplicity is a factor in choosing a DAW, I am living proof that Reaper gets 10/10 for being accessible to the feeble of mind.    
 

Snap

IMC1980 said:

Snap said:

HAve you used any of the new multiband and EQ that have just been bundled> the VST3 ones? They are good, but I think they are quite heavy on resources. Sound brill though.

The LP MB and EQ? I used the LP EQ on a guitar bus in M/S configuration, helped to add some sparkle to some dull acoustic recordings. Not used the multiband or the new adaptive limiter yet, but will probably use them on the master bus for demos. 

Yes, those. The adaptive limiter is really good. Very impressed with it. All three of them are very good tbh, I like them a lot.

It frustrates me how Sonar is overlooked by the music mags: I had a sub to Computer Music, and there was rarely anyting in there specific to Sonar, musdt be down to popularity I suppose

ToneControl

I've used Protools since 1999
it's very good but has a few flaws

If I were starting now on a PC, I'd consider Reaper (unless you want to use the industry-standard for collaboration etc)
+ Ableton

on  a Mac, Logic is a no brainer, it's so cheap for what you get

guitarfishbay

The problem with Pro Tools is that I'd be unhappy with a 128 track limitation for the standard version - and HD, which would be what I'd want, is brutally expensive.  Even renting HD costs $999 per year. 

Danny1969

HD is cheap now as  discontinued HDX is the expensive  but insanely powerful option now 
 For me ProTools is a software and hardware solution ..  If you need to track with zero latency it's the only real option ... For anything else there are better solutions 

guitarfishbay

Where is Protools HD cheap?  As far as I can see a perpetual license costs £2.5k for the software

octatonic

I use Logic and Pro Tools most of the time.

Pro Tools: I find it pretty frustrating to use at times but it does some stuff that nothing else does- especially with multitrack drum editing. But Avid suck in how they treat their customers- you either pay a shit load of money for a HD system (which is pretty unnecessary given how fast computers are now) or you get a limited feature set.

Logic Pro X: I've been using it so long now (since Notator on Atari ST) now that it feels like home. Some of what Apple has done since they bought it has been frustrating but mostly it is excellent and an easy place to create music.

My workflow is often tracking and drum editing in Protools, then throwing the whole session into Logic for further editing, sound design and then mixing.

If I was starting out again with everything that exists I'd go for Reaper but I doubt I'd stop using PT and Logic now.

guitarfishbay

So many people seem to be mentioning Reaper.  I feel I need to try it for myself.

octatonic

guitarfishbay said:

So many people seem to be mentioning Reaper.  I feel I need to try it for myself.

You won't get more features for $60- it is insane how little they charge for it.

Danny1969

guitarfishbay said:

Where is Protools HD cheap?  As far as I can see a perpetual license costs £2.5k for the software

You can buy a full Protools HD system complete with process cards, interface, software etc for less than a grand now ,,, used obviously ... I sold an HD2 system myself for £660

An HDX core card and HD software bundle  is £5200 

I still use Protools  6.4 which I brought from Avid for £48 ..... it's useless unless you have the hardware though. Where Protools excels is in multiple monitor mixes for a whole band. As the cards are effectively a digital mixing desk you can have as many stereo monitor mixes as you have physical outputs all with zero latency .... if you need more physical sockets for more mixes then you can connect another interface to another card ..This kind of thing is much harder to do with Reaper or Logic running on even a very fast computer ... I've never managed to get a low enough latency setting for a drummer running a DAW in native mode, I generally had to give them monitor mixes via our Tascam digital desk ..... but with only 12 aux sends we generally ran out of headphone mixes for large bands. Some guys had to slum it in mono At home stuff like this wouldn't be a problem 


For home recording I use Reaper myself, it's effectively free if you can tolerate the nag screen for 30 seconds when you launch it. The built in plugins aren't great but it's easy enough to install a load more

shrinkwrap

Another Reaper user here - it's not "effectively free" unless you think picking up a wallet on the street is yours to keep.
 Do the decent thing and buy it if you use it !

I spent some time recently trying to find a DAW with slicker MIDI capabilities and a sexy interface. But you cannot get close to Reaper in bang for buck - only tempting thing was Logic and the instrument plugins, but I'm on a PC.
My mate who has used Logic for years now prefers Reaper to everything, apart from putting a tune together with notes in MIDI and he berates Logic's way of doing things.

guitarfishbay

shrinkwrap said:

My mate who has used Logic for years now prefers Reaper to everything, apart from putting a tune together with notes in MIDI and he berates Logic's way of doing things.

Way of doing things is very broad.

I've not yet tried Reaper, but Logic's way of handling mixing workflow is IMO superior to Cubase and Studio One, at least the way I do things.

Speed of setup - Logic gives you handles for pan and volume in the arrange window.  Cubase doesn't, and Studio One only gives you Volume.  In general the most powerful mixing moves are volume and pan - being able to see when audio is playing and adjust things accordingly allows you to set up the basics very fast in Logic.

Likewise the inspector (left side of screen in the arrange window).  In Logic you see the inserts, sends, volume, and pans for the track you're working on - and it's destination.  And this switches depending on what you click on - either the bus, or the send.  Again very quick, you can access what you need to with minimal disruption.

In terms of tracking and editing audio I'd say either Studio One or Cubase would be preferable to Logic.

Studio One's scratch pads are awesome for testing multiple different arrangements without ever losing your primary one.  It's such a simple but effective feature.

AvalonAndy

Graham has spoken.  He says that switching your DAW is a terrible idea.  He's usually right.

https://www.recordingrevolution.com/switching-daws-can-ruin-your-recordings/

guitarfishbay

Switching DAWs is not a terrible idea if you know another DAW has features you'd use, you don't even have to fully switch if you just want to use some functions in one DAW and complete the rest in your primary one.  I'll watch his video when I've got time, but based on that statement I completely disagree.

Fluency and speed are what matters.  I'm guessing that'll form part of his argument.  My experience is that if you keep your transport shortcuts consistent, and map out key functionality, you can be up and running to a good level in a week or two if you put in the time to learn it.  This is assuming you were already pretty fluent in another DAW and general recording workflows already.

The two biggest difficulties I've found are language and bugs.  The same feature may be called different things in each DAW, and all DAWs have some bugs.  Whats important to know is if the bugs will affect you and how you can manage their impact.  And I guess by extension 'quirks' - things that are functioning as intended but may not be the ideal scenario based on your own tastes.

AvalonAndy

I have used FL, Pro Tools (HD & M-Powered), Cubase and Logic.  For me, the desired result of recording is to get a great-sounding mix.  Switching DAW isn't going to make your mix sound any better.  They all do the same thing slightly differently.  The only thing that's going to happen is that you're going to spend money and a huge amount of time mastering the new DAW.   
I'm not saying it's a terrible idea to switch, I was just telling you what he said, but personally, if I had mastered a particular DAW, I wouldn't waste my time chasing the rainbow.

octatonic

Danny1969 said:

guitarfishbay said:

Where is Protools HD cheap?  As far as I can see a perpetual license costs £2.5k for the software

You can buy a full Protools HD system complete with process cards, interface, software etc for less than a grand now ,,, used obviously ... I sold an HD2 system myself for £660

An HDX core card and HD software bundle  is £5200 

I still use Protools  6.4 which I brought from Avid for £48 ..... it's useless unless you have the hardware though. Where Protools excels is in multiple monitor mixes for a whole band. As the cards are effectively a digital mixing desk you can have as many stereo monitor mixes as you have physical outputs all with zero latency .... if you need more physical sockets for more mixes then you can connect another interface to another card ..This kind of thing is much harder to do with Reaper or Logic running on even a very fast computer ... I've never managed to get a low enough latency setting for a drummer running a DAW in native mode, I generally had to give them monitor mixes via our Tascam digital desk ..... but with only 12 aux sends we generally ran out of headphone mixes for large bands. Some guys had to slum it in mono At home stuff like this wouldn't be a problem 

I'm a former HD3 owner and agree that at that time it was the only way to do it properly.
Things have definitely moved on now.
You can now do this just as well as in Protools.

I'm using a Focusrite Red 8 Pre either over Thunderbolt or over Dante (ethernet audio protocol) and can set up multiple cue mixes (I did 6 yesterday) all within the Focusrite Control app.
Over Thunderbolt I have the latency down to 2.9ms- and that is roundtrip, at 44.1khz.
You can't feel it- and I'm a drummer.



I've been experimenting with higher sample rates too- at 96khz the roundtrip latency is 1.7ms and at 192khz it is 1.5ms.
On my dual core MBPr 13"  can get about 20 tracks with a few plugins at 192khz before it craps out- but I have a new 27 iMac 5k coming next week that should give me a hell of a lot more grunt to track at higher sample rates.

The human ear can detect about 11ms but I reckon a drummer is thrown off if it is more than 6ms- at least most of them.
IMHO it has been fixed.

That said, I'm considering dipping my toe back into HDX- you can pick up a new HDX card and HD software for £4500 (KMR have it) and I can use my Focusrite interface but I'm waiting to see what Apple are doing with the new Mac Pro before committing to it.