IEM's, no monitor, no amp

matt1973

Just had this situation imposed on me under the moniker of it being "the future". Good earbuds Shure 425s' and an ok Thomann headphone amp deliver a good monitor mix but the guitar feels pretty dead and the tone from my Helix (which I think is a great bit of kit btw) is pretty artificial sounding. 

Anyone been been through this and lived to tell the tale? It's making me pretty darn miserable at the moment.

delorean

I get that using IEMs and the only way round it that worked for me was to keep one earphone out so that I still get some of the sound from the backline.  

Tweaking the monitor mix eq didn't help me much,  nor did putting up an extra mic just for ambient sound.  I'm still not 100% happy but it beats the hell outta floor monitors. 

Good luck dude

kennedydream1980

I tried the very same thing with an Atomic Amplifire 12, I had it running direct to the board. I Loved the sound out front through the PA, but just couldn't get away with the sound of the guitar through the In Ear Monitors.

I persevered for 3 months hoping I would get used to it, but in the end I realised I needed a guitar amp on stage. So I went back to using a clean valve amp with pedals.

I still use the IEM's though, both for monitoring vocals and the rest of the band. I have to say the sound of my guitar through a mic'd valve amp through the IEM's is so much better. If for some reason I'm not digging it, I just pull one of the earphones out so I can here the live sound of the amp.

Roland

The guitar can sound dead when there's no acoustic coupling with an amp and speaker. Also the IRs that provide cabinet emulation deliver the type of sound that you'd get in a recording, and not what you're used to when playing live. Have you tried changing IRs, and adding "small room" reverb to the IEM feed?

Roland

And another thing ... Despite how good the 425s are their frequency response is not flat. https://www.innerfidelity.com/images/ShureSE425.pdf. You need a multi band graphic, or a parametric with multiple bands, to smooth out the hills and valleys.

maltingsaudio

Interesting question arises from this, what is more important what the audience hears or what you hear?

matt1973

Very interesting comments guys. The main problem is the coupling issue - I have zero stage volume. As such I'm having to use more gain and delay than I would like to compensate which isn't ideal. I'll take a look at the eq correction - I've noticed there is a marked difference in the buds vs FOH so that could be useful.

Roland

maltingsaudio said:

Interesting question arises from this, what is more important what the audience hears or what you hear?

There's no right answer to that. The needs of the two groups are different. 

ESBlonde

Roland said:

maltingsaudio said:

Interesting question arises from this, what is more important what the audience hears or what you hear?

There's no right answer to that. The needs of the two groups are different. 

Some say the inspiration of the player translates to better performance. Of course we could all use a cheap squire into a behringer digital box and get the sound out front, but instead we waste cash on valves, pedals and custom shop guitars with fake wear on them. But the actual sound out front varies little.

ash96

ESBlonde said:

Some say the inspiration of the player translates to better performance. Of course we could all use a cheap squire into a behringer digital box and get the sound out front, but instead we waste cash on valves, pedals and custom shop guitars with fake wear on them. But the actual sound out front varies little.

This is a big one. I used my Kemper a lot more lately and felt like it sounded 'fake' and a bit fizzy in my IEMs (I always use IEMS now, and love them), however, it does actually sound a hell of a lot like my Victory V30. But because I know its not an amp, or I dont have a speaker, I question the tone more.

I think its just a case of 'getting used to it' with IEMs. It is weird and does maybe feel a bit sterile to start with, but now I wouldn't go back.

Now it feels weird not being able to hear everything so clearly, without having to absolutely crank my amp or whatever. I'm using this mainly for functions gigs atm, 2-3 gigs a week.

RocknRollDave

Played a gig once where no backline was allowed, so had to use in-ears and amp sims on my cheap multi-FX unit. 

No terrible, but way off what a good gig would have sounded and felt like

Danny1969

I certainly don't have a problem getting a great mic'ed sound in my iem's ... I would have thought the helix would have a pretty good speaker sim and virtual mic settings .... maybe do some tweaking

one of my friends uses a palmer speaker simulator for his iem's and swears by it

welshboyo

I use 425's and a Helix and do some gigs with no backline whatsoever - it sounds fine to me - however, I do tend to play with one earbud in sometimes just to get some ambience (you can still hear some of the out-front.

I find it fine - just to clarify that your headphone mix is from the PA?

matt1973

Yeah the mix is from the PA guitar sounds great through a wedge and out front but terrible in the earbuds. I'm using the Ownhammer Marshall 4x12 which has worked well in all other instances.

ICBM

matt1973 said:

Yeah the mix is from the PA guitar sounds great through a wedge and out front but terrible in the earbuds. I'm using the Ownhammer Marshall 4x12 which has worked well in all other instances.

In that case I would ditch the IEMs and use the wedge.

I hate playing guitar through headphones of any kind.

matt1973

I'd absolutely love to but the people who run the band don't want the musicians to use any backline or stage monitors. Just IEMs

ICBM

matt1973 said:

I'd absolutely love to but the people who run the band don't want the musicians to use any backline or stage monitors. Just IEMs

Is it an acoustic drum kit?

matt1973

Yup although it has a clear sonic Perspex shield 

welshboyo

Hmm..ok, that's weird!!

I use a Sennheiser Wireless IEM kit and also have a cheapo LD systems one as a backup and both sound great.

Sounds to me like either the headphone mixer is being supplied with a less than ideal signal or the headphone mixer itself ain't great.

ICBM

matt1973 said:

Yup although it has a clear sonic Perspex shield 

In that case I would suggest you say you're going to use a wedge monitor or they can find another guitarist . Zero stage level clearly isn't the issue, since even with a perspex shield the kit will be very audible on stage. So there's no reason you can't have some onstage level, especially if it isn't facing out front where it might interfere with the mix.

If you're not enjoying it as it stands, that's what I would do anyway…

This is something that really puzzles me about volume nazis soundmen in any set-up where there is an acoustic kit.