EL34 or. 6L6 better suited to my needs ?

Telejester

Im 100% a single coils fender guy who is hugely inspired by Jeff Healey and Philip Sayce type guitar tones, tubescreamer pushing bell like sweet top end and singing sustain. I was strongly considering the el84 laney lionheart l20h head but the drive channel bothered me, no arse in the low end and it just didnt sing for me. For that ash telecaster bell like top end, great low end and sweet singing sustain when pushed, which is more suitable el,34 or 6l6 ?

timmysoft

The problem might not be the amp, tubescreamers do cut low end...... a lot.

 I certainly never had a problem with my old L20h into either a 1936 / Zilla Studio 212 / Orange PPC212 / Marshall 1960a, always plenty of low end.

 EL84's dont generate the same grinding bass frequencies as 6L6's or EL34's, no matter what anyone says, they just don't. 

 Personally i'd go for an EL34 loaded amp but then change over to the E34L's, they're a happy middle ground. I usually prefer the highs and upper mids of the EL34 and the lower mid and bass frequencies of the 6L6. I used to have a Brunetti Pirata 141 that allowed you to blend between the two valve types, it really helped me decide what i like about those two valves.

ICBM

6L6

sweepy

6L6 amps have always had a better bottom end than their EL34 valved counterparts in my experience . Even in the realm of modelling if you after a more defined and pronounced bottom end, it's always 6L6's

Telejester

Regarding fender neck pickup driven tones a la srv at el mocambo ,would you still say 6L6 ? Think jeff buckley cleans with his 83 tele, would you stillvsay 6L6 ?

Telejester

ICBM said:

6L6

Icbm have you ever had a look inside a victory duchess head and can comment on its design / reliability ?

djspecialist

FWIW, I switched from 6L6 to EL34 in my Victory V40 and prefer the latter.  I found 6L6 a bit boomy, whereas EL34 is slightly tighter in the bottom end - but still with plenty of bass.  I'm running it through a Zilla vertical 2x12 cab, loaded with WGS ET-65 + WGS Reaper HP.

Gratuituous pic (note that the control settings shown here - particularly the tone stack - aren't representative of what I typically use):

Funkfingers

Another vote for 6L6. 

ThePrettyDamned

How are you using the tubescreamer? 

The reason it worked so well for SRV is because he used it into a very loud, clean fender amp. Most people use it to tip the amp into drive, but he actually used quite a bit of gain I think (some may disagree). 

Tubescreamers slash your bass out in a big way, so lots of volume, a big cab and a powerful amp are big parts to that sound I think. 

djspecialist

ThePrettyDamned said:

Tubescreamers slash your bass out in a big way

True - although there are TS-based pedals which don't to the same extent.  The right side of my VS-XO is allegedly based on a TS-808, and is switchable between bass boost, flat and bass cut modes. 

ThePrettyDamned

djspecialist said:

ThePrettyDamned said:

Tubescreamers slash your bass out in a big way

True - although there are TS-based pedals which don't to the same extent.  The right side of my VS-XO is allegedly based on a TS-808, and is switchable between bass boost, flat and bass cut modes. 

Absolutely. 

I loved my old route 66 - it had a comp and a ts808 style circuit, rather than the Open Road and TS derived circuits in yours. 

Mine only had a bass boost option but it did thicken things up. Great pedal. 

ICBM

Telejester said:

Regarding fender neck pickup driven tones a la srv at el mocambo ,would you still say 6L6 ? Think jeff buckley cleans with his 83 tele, would you stillvsay 6L6 ?

I don't know what SRV was using - he sometimes used Marshalls as well as Fenders - but Jeff Buckley had a Fender Vibroverb and a Mesa Trem-o-verb. The Fender has 6L6s and the Mesa can take either but came with 6L6s.

Telejester said:
Icbm have you ever had a look inside a victory duchess head and can comment on its design / reliability ?

Never seen one.

ThePrettyDamned said:

How are you using the tubescreamer? 

The reason it worked so well for SRV is because he used it into a very loud, clean fender amp. Most people use it to tip the amp into drive, but he actually used quite a bit of gain I think (some may disagree).

That is true. I've seen a pic of his pedalboard and the distortion knobs on both the Tube Screamers were above 12 o'clock. The idea of using a TS as an almost-clean boost is a more modern thing.

Telejester

I use a maxon od808 with level on full and drive at zero. With the blackstar ht5r head in my bedroom , if you start turning up the drive control on the maxon as well and use the neck pickup , it gets far too compressed on the lower strings.Is this a headroom thing that wouldnt be as applicable to a 6L6 amp ?

Incidentally when i had a sheriff22 , it worked fine with maxon level on full and drive at zero, but start turning up the drive control and the amp sounded like a soggy dose of the skitters (trots). Wonder if its a el84 v 6L6 how easily they compress thing ?

If i go for the 6L6 duchess its so as i have a killer clean platform, clean for jeff buckley, add a pedal for jeff healey dirty clean rhythm tones and a boost for singing leads. Using two drive units , is there a risk of over compressed mush with this amp ?

ICBM

With a Blackstar there's always a risk of overcompressed mush…



When you say turning up the drive control on the pedal makes things sound bad, do you also turn the level down? The HT-5 has diode hard-limiting on the input to protect the first gain stage (which is an IC, not a valve - in fact the valve is much later in the circuit), so if you hit it with too high a signal level that will kick in and it will sound more like stacking distortion pedals. In any case a TS doesn't really sound good like that either.

I know it seems to be fashionable now to thrash the living daylights out of the amp with input level, but it very often doesn't work well, even with cleaner amps. Use the various gain and level controls on the pedals and the amp to produce a more consistent steady increase in gain through the whole the signal path and it will work much better. Contrary to popular belief the TS and other overdrive pedals of that era were designed to be used into clean amps, as stand-alone overdriven tone generators. The reason they work well as boosters into some valve amps is a happy accident.

Telejester

What about stacking two drive units, in manner i described above, any risk of compressed mud ?

ICBM

Telejester said:

What about stacking two drive units, in manner i described above, any risk of compressed mud ?

Yes - any time you stack distortion into distortion there is. If you're going to do it you need to either reduce the gain on them, not set them for a level boost (or not much), or use different pedals with different types of clipping or EQ, or some combination of all those.

I find a Boss SD-1 into a DS-1 works very well, for example - but I set the SD-1 with very little more than unity level, and they have completely different EQs. I never use an overdrive pedal with the level up full or the gain on zero.

Telejester

https://youtu.be/K7ZzG_lkQrA

Thank god there are some people who know what a demo is ( not Rob Chapman ) what this demo is saying to me is that difference in using el34 or 6L6 with that amp is how you like your mids, you like slightly scooped mids a la fender super reverb or vibroverb then the 6L6 is for you, like your mids a bit more prounounced  a la marshall then el34 is your ticket. There is a bell like clarity im hearing with the 6L6 that is nearly giving me a semi, now all i need to know is just how much that amp loves pedals for clean platform use.

Isnt that guitarists everything Rob Chapman isnt, what a player the guy in this video really is.

Telejester

How well do 6l6 amps take drive pedals for blues and classic rock ?

Im in a quandry as i love warren dimartini ratt tones (el34) and philip sayce (6l6), can el34s be used for spanky cleans and can 6l6s be used for chewy drive ? I know the answer is both heads, 6l6 for clean and el34 for drive.....but my wife would have my balls.

ICBM

Both can be used for both, it's just a small tilt in either direction.

Some amps can use either valve, and it doesn't drastically change the sound - more a difference in how easy it is to dial it in for classic Fender or Marshall-style sounds.

Bear in mind a Hiwatt DR103 uses EL34s and still produces clear, bell-like clean sounds - and a Soldano SLO uses 6L6s and produces very full-on rock overdrive...

Telejester

ICBM said:

Both can be used for both, it's just a small tilt in either direction.

Some amps can use either valve, and it doesn't drastically change the sound - more a difference in how easy it is to dial it in for classic Fender or Marshall-style sounds.

Bear in mind a Hiwatt DR103 uses EL34s and still produces clear, bell-like clean sounds - and a Soldano SLO uses 6L6s and produces very full-on rock overdrive...

Can 6l6 when used fir drive produce a thin sound that makes you   just wish there was more oomph ? For clean i think 6l6 is superb.

ICBM

Have you heard a Mesa Rectifier or Trem-o-verb? Nothing thin about those...