Problem having all true bypass?

lincolnblue

As far as I know all my pedals are true bypass: Polytune, Phase 90 block, Mooer blues crab, ehx Holy stain, boo instruments Chorus, TC Nova delay, Hardwire reverb. I've been reading about buffer pedals and wondering if there's any issue with having all true bypass pedals? I also use a morley wah and have just bought a Boss FV 500H.

ICBM

Yes, you will get considerable tone suck with that many true bypass pedals. The Phase 90 may even by 'half-arsed bypass', I can't remember if it's been updated or not - if so it's a noticeable tone-sucker all by itself.

But you're in luck - the Morley should be buffered, so if you put that somewhere near the start of the chain - which is probably where you'd want it anyway from an effect point of view - it should cure the problem. The exact order probably isn't that critical (although I would make sure it's before the Phase 90), and it may be worth experimenting and seeing which sounds best.

JDE

The Nova Delay isn't tbp, either. With a buffer at the start and end of your chain (or very nearly, anyway) you'll be fine. For that size of pedalboard I don't think there would be too much of a difference anyway. 10 + pedals is a different story.

d8m

I run 6 pedals:

Ditto<HOF<memory toy<ds2<ERD<Soul Food.

I have the soul food in buffered mode so am running 2 buffered pedals (soul food and ds2)

Without these I would lose some tone on the high end. 

Not as much as having a massive frusciante esque board mind!

It also depends on the length/quality of your cable.

Generally you want a good buffer at the start of the chain to kick your signal through all the true bypass stuff.

For more of a read on the benefits I recommend this;

http://www.petecornish.co.uk/case_against_true_bypass.html

It's a bit long but gives a good explanation .

ToneControl

Does anyone know what's the cheapest always-on buffer that does not damage tone? My pedals and amps are mostly high-end, so I don't want to compromise on sound, just on price

Gassage

ToneControl said:

Does anyone know what's the cheapest always-on buffer that does not damage tone? My pedals and amps are mostly high-end, so I don't want to compromise on sound, just on price

Empress and the Suhr are well priced. The Empress Buffer + is very good indeed, and both Empress ones are push/pull style, which will help you.

lincolnblue

So if I buy a buffer pedal (for when I'm not using the Morley) is it best to have it as the very first thing? At present the Polytune is first unless I use my wah when that goes first. I don't use the wah too much though (it's off my board). In getting the volume pedal, is it always best to use the Tuner Out or do I just run into the tuner as I would a normal pedal?

I'm just trying to work out where I would put a buffer. There seem to be a lot fairly cheap on Ebay.

stickyfiddle

ToneControl said:

Does anyone know what's the cheapest always-on buffer that does not damage tone? My pedals and amps are mostly high-end, so I don't want to compromise on sound, just on price

A Klon buffer clone is always a good shout. Poodle's Klon one is good http://shop.pedalparts.co.uk/Klon_Buffer/p847124_6346591.aspx if you're handy at soldering, or pickup a fully built one off ebay:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Handmade-Guitar-Buffer-Line-Driver-using-Klon-Centaur-Circuit-/131113439549?pt=UK_Guitar_Accessories&hash=item1e86f8513d

ThePrettyDamned

ToneControl said:

Does anyone know what's the cheapest always-on buffer that does not damage tone? My pedals and amps are mostly high-end, so I don't want to compromise on sound, just on price

The Visual Sound Truetone.  

What's your pedal board like though?  Proper good high end stuff normally has a quality buffer, sometimes switchable - the only ones that don't are independant folks who use true bypass because it's easiest and it's a desirable 'feature'.  

Gassage

lincolnblue said:

So if I buy a buffer pedal (for when I'm not using the Morley) is it best to have it as the very first thing? At present the Polytune is first unless I use my wah when that goes first. I don't use the wah too much though (it's off my board). In getting the volume pedal, is it always best to use the Tuner Out or do I just run into the tuner as I would a normal pedal?

I'm just trying to work out where I would put a buffer. There seem to be a lot fairly cheap on Ebay.

First. If you buy the Empress, it's first and last in one box.

smudge_lad

seconded for a Klon buffer, been using one for almost a year now, great wee thing

Cirrus

I was going to suggest a Poodle one - just made the Cornish clone and honestly I'm surprised what a difference I perceive having it at the start of my chain vs an SD-1. My ideal is having a buffer at the start and end of my board with true bypass pedals in between. I've got to say though I wouldn't let it stop me from putting buffered pedals in between or true bypass out front if they gave me sounds I wanted!

I think the Nova Delay has an excellent buffer and lots of headroom so I'm always happy to put mine at the end of the chain.

crunchman

Cirrus said:

I was going to suggest a Poodle one - just made the Cornish clone and honestly I'm surprised what a difference I perceive having it at the start of my chain vs an SD-1.

I recently made a Cornish buffer clone as well.  It just makes everything sound better.

If you want a kit you can get it here.  Although I did mine on Vero board, and ordered all the parts separately.

http://pedalparts.co.uk/cream-buff-guitar-signal-buffer/

lincolnblue

Cirrus said:

I was going to suggest a Poodle one - just made the Cornish clone and honestly I'm surprised what a difference I perceive having it at the start of my chain vs an SD-1. My ideal is having a buffer at the start and end of my board with true bypass pedals in between. I've got to say though I wouldn't let it stop me from putting buffered pedals in between or true bypass out front if they gave me sounds I wanted!

I think the Nova Delay has an excellent buffer and lots of headroom so I'm always happy to put mine at the end of the chain.

The Nova Delay is last in my chain so that's obviously a good thing. Just need to get a buffer to go first now.

ICBM

lincolnblue said:

So if I buy a buffer pedal (for when I'm not using the Morley) is it best to have it as the very first thing? At present the Polytune is first unless I use my wah when that goes first. I don't use the wah too much though (it's off my board). In getting the volume pedal, is it always best to use the Tuner Out or do I just run into the tuner as I would a normal pedal?

I'm just trying to work out where I would put a buffer. There seem to be a lot fairly cheap on Ebay.

It's probably best to have the buffer first, but not critical. As long as it's before any pedals which could definitely suck tone (the Phase 90 in your case) it's fine - the length of cabling up to that point shouldn't be enough to make a difference. (The long cable to the amp is an issue in setups with no buffers at all though.)

Your tuner is true bypass so just put it in line.

Cirrus said:

I was going to suggest a Poodle one - just made the Cornish clone and honestly I'm surprised what a difference I perceive having it at the start of my chain vs an SD-1.

That's a bit of an unfair comparison though - the SD-1 buffer is notoriously crap, both for the actual quality of the sound and the leakage in bypass. Something like the TU-2 has a much better buffer, even though it's still a Boss.

Bidley

I think the Hardwire pedals are switchable between buffered and TBP.

crunchman

ICBM said:

Cirrus said:

I was going to suggest a Poodle one - just made the Cornish clone and honestly I'm surprised what a difference I perceive having it at the start of my chain vs an SD-1.

That's a bit of an unfair comparison though - the SD-1 buffer is notoriously crap, both for the actual quality of the sound and the leakage in bypass. Something like the TU-2 has a much better buffer, even though it's still a Boss.

I have to say that my board definitely seems better with the Cornish buffer than when I used the TU3 as a buffer.  Having said that, the TU3 was a massive improvement over no buffer at all.

Cirrus

ICBM;162446" said:

That's a bit of an unfair comparison though - the SD-1 buffer is notoriously crap, both for the actual quality of the sound and the leakage in bypass. Something like the TU-2 has a much better buffer, even though it's still a Boss.

Yep, it sure is! Actually I always thought the Korg DT-10 has a brilliant buffer. I just mentioned the Cornish thingy because I made it last weekend so I'm still excited about it. 

ragingben

I'd try not to get too caught up on the whole buffer thing - if you're happy with your tone with them all in there even if a bit of high end is missing then just plug in, play and smile