112 cab speaker choice?

moz91

Really liking using my blackstar ht40 combo, but I quite like the idea of a 112 under it. Sounds nice, but I'm used to a 412 and I like something behind me that pushes a bit more air!
I worry a v30 with a small amp might sound really boxy and mid focused where as I want clarity and a bit more low end.
Ideas guys??

digitalscream

A V30 is the last speaker you'd want to pick for a 1x12" if you ask me. Far too mid-range-y. You need something with a bit of an emphasis on the lower end while still keeping a bit of high-mid articulation.

Something like a G12K-100 would be a much better choice - a lot more balls to compensate for the lack of plurality Also, in a 1x12" the added weight from the massive magnet isn't so much of an issue.

randomhandclaps

I agree about a V30. If that is the flavour you like though try an Emi Private Jack - they say it's voiced between a V30 and a Greenback.  I have two 1x12s in our studio loaded with them and they are great.

moz91

G12K could be an interesting choice...

What I cant really make my mind up on is do I just swap out the speaker in the amp, or do that and put a nice 112 underneath it too..

The G12k would certainly be nice in a 112 cab alone, could even use that with my JCM900 head If I was feeling that way out!
One thing I do want to avoid is a harsh sounding amp... Certainly sounds warm enough with the stock Seventy80 (which i'm not too fond of for the record...), but its lacking some real bollocks in the low end!

digitalscream

When having any vertical configuration of speakers, I tend to consider what I'm using each for - onstage, the upper speaker is the one I'm going to hear, so I want it to be brighter and possibly with more mids so that it's cutting through enough for me to hear. However, I'll make sure that the darker speaker (eg the G12K in the case of my suggestion) is the one that gets the mic for the PA, so that out front there's a ballsier sound.

moz91

Bloody good point, hadn't thought of it that way around....
In a perfect world I'd like an EVM12l but I don't think I could stump up the coin for one of those wee beasts

ICBM

If you can find one - and you aren't put off by the price they go for! - look for an old Mesa 'Thiele' cab - it's a ported 1x12" that sounds massive, almost like a small 4x12" with a huge amount of low-end for such a small box. The earlier versions came with the EVM, which makes them very heavy, and these seem to be more desirable too; the later version came with a Celestion (Mesa's custom 90-watter, not a V30) and is lighter.

It really puzzles me why more manufacturers don't seem to do anything like this nowadays... or perhaps I'm just not looking for them.

ICBM

digitalscream said:

A V30 is the last speaker you'd want to pick for a 1x12" if you ask me. Far too mid-range-y. You need something with a bit of an emphasis on the lower end while still keeping a bit of high-mid articulation.

Something like a G12K-100 would be a much better choice - a lot more balls to compensate for the lack of plurality Also, in a 1x12" the added weight from the massive magnet isn't so much of an issue.

Surprisingly enough the G12K-100 is exactly the same weight as the V30 - both are H-magnet Celestions.

I agree about V30s in 1x12"s mostly, although my Traynor YCV20 sounds good with one in...

digitalscream

ICBM said:

If you can find one - and you aren't put off by the price they go for! - look for an old Mesa 'Thiele' cab - it's a ported 1x12" that sounds massive, almost like a small 4x12" with a huge amount of low-end for such a small box. The earlier versions came with the EVM, which makes them very heavy, and these seem to be more desirable too; the later version came with a Celestion (Mesa's custom 90-watter, not a V30) and is lighter.

It really puzzles me why more manufacturers don't seem to do anything like this nowadays... or perhaps I'm just not looking for them.

Perhaps this is what you're looking for?

http://matrixguitaramplification.com/products/nl12-neolight-cab/

OK, so it's not quite the same idea as a Thiele cab, but it's designed with the same goals in mind - as well as being light as possible. I'm really rather tempted...

ICBM said:

Surprisingly enough the G12K-100 is exactly the same weight as the V30 - both are H-magnet Celestions.

I agree about V30s in 1x12"s mostly, although my Traynor YCV20 sounds good with one in...

I noticed that after I'd posted. Still, I reckon that V30s are obscenely heavy anyway.

ICBM

digitalscream said:

Perhaps this is what you're looking for?

http://matrixguitaramplification.com/products/nl12-neolight-cab/

OK, so it's not quite the same idea as a Thiele cab, but it's designed with the same goals in mind - as well as being light as possible. I'm really rather tempted...

It looks very similar - just turned on its side. Interesting!

digitalscream said:

I noticed that after I'd posted. Still, I reckon that V30s are obscenely heavy anyway.

I think I must just have more tolerance for weight . I'm clearly crazy since I don't regard a Mesa Trem-o-verb with two V30s as obscenely heavy! Although oddly, a MkIV with an EV - which is probably slightly lighter overall - does seem so, because it's half the size.

digitalscream

ICBM said:

digitalscream said:

Perhaps this is what you're looking for?

http://matrixguitaramplification.com/products/nl12-neolight-cab/

OK, so it's not quite the same idea as a Thiele cab, but it's designed with the same goals in mind - as well as being light as possible. I'm really rather tempted...

It looks very similar - just turned on its side. Interesting!

Yeah...I tried lifting the 2x12" version at the guitar show in Birmingham, and it was so ludicrously light I almost fell over backwards. I may still wait for the 2x12" to come out. My only worry is that my Jet City is a fairly bright amp as it is, which might be exaggerated by the neo speakers.

ICBM

Given how light the cab is, you could easily put conventional speakers in it and not make it too heavy.

moz91

Oooh that is interesting, the thiele style cabs look pretty cool! What sort of money do they fetch? Mesa thiele or some other Ported 112. Weight isn't an issue - I'd rather pay less for something with a bit of weight to it than pay over the odds for a matrix neo thingy!

crunchman

Celestion G12 65 is a nice speaker.  I have one in a 1 x 12.

If you want to save weight then the Vintage Century is worth a look.

I don't think you've said whether you are going open back or closed back with the cab.  That will make a difference.

V30 isn't so bad in a closed back cab but it's still not my favourite speaker.

ICBM

To get anything like a 4x12" sound you need closed-back and preferably ported.

The Mesa Thiele cabs seem to sell for around £200, which isn't bad considering how expensive they used to be.

viz

Weird, I've got a Carvin 1x12 cab with a V30 and it sounds bloody lovely to me.

citizen68

ICBM said:

To get anything like a 4x12" sound you need closed-back and preferably ported.

The Mesa Thiele cabs seem to sell for around £200, which isn't bad considering how expensive they used to be.

Alternatively get a decent joiner to build you one? http://hf-antenna.com/Flotsam/EV/ElectroVoice_TL806.pdf

ICBM

Could do, but to get one built to the same standard and including a speaker would probably cost as much, at least if it wasn't a friend who happens to be a joiner. The speaker in the Mesa alone is worth £75 to £100, particularly if it's the EV.

moz91

Do they really go for as little as 200? Was expecting much worse...
Thiele 112 is tempting! Would still be interested to hear some other speakers in the blackstar though. I don't think a v30 would be wise, but my speaker knowledge isn't that great so I'm a at a bit of a loose end for what to try!

ICBM

Mesa prices really have dropped recently - especially the older stuff. £200 might be a touch optimistic, but I reckon you'd get one for that if you keep a look out.

The Classic Lead 80 is quite a good 'opposite' to the V30 - instead of being aggressive and focused in the high mids, it's got a lot of low-end and top, and is much cleaner and more open-sounding - like a G12H-30 but tighter. The H30 would also probably be a good choice, and will take the power if you're always running it along with the combo speaker.

moz91

So how does a g12h30 or a greenback stack up tonally against say a v30 or a 12-75t? This is where I just get lost in it all, I need to be put in a room full of demo cabs I think!