Best sub £400 multi-effects type setup - any strong opinions?

Megii

Just wondering about this - I've been looking especially at the Boss GT 100 and also Line 6 Pod HD500X on Youtube but hard to come to any kind of conclusion, and I guess there are plusses and minuses for both. Or, since I have a couple of drive pedals I like a lot, maybe I could get the new Boss MS-3 to use with those. Whatever, I'll almost certainly go with a simple guitar into effects into clean amp kind of setup - that's what I do now with my pedal board. Whatever setup I have needs to be capable of standing up to gigging use, both in terms of sound and durability. Just any thoughts welcome anyhow, cheers.

Funkfingers

My opinion is that I dislike any processor between my guitar output jack socket and the loudspeaker(s) of my amplification that turns all of my signal into zeros and ones.

The only exception that I make to this sweeping generalisation is the Roland VG-99. Obviously, in that instance, the original pitch controlling signal does not always behave like a normal electric guitar anyway. 

In answer to your question, I would go the individual pedals and switcher/controller route.

Teetonetal

Of course lots of individual stomps are digital now anyway so often a moot point.

I've been round and round with pedal boards and really if it sounds good enough it is good enough.

I have a small boss only board. An insane moogerfooger and other expensive stuff controlled by boss es5 board and a helix.

I use the small board and the helix most. Both sound great. Both serve their application well.

If you have dirt you are happy with, go try the ms3. Sounds like it could be a good fit. 

Megii

Funkfingers said:

My opinion is that I dislike any processor between my guitar output jack socket and the loudspeaker(s) of my amplification that turns all of my signal into zeros and ones.

The only exception that I make to this sweeping generalisation is the Roland VG-99. Obviously, in that instance, the original pitch controlling signal does not always behave like a normal electric guitar anyway. 

In answer to your question, I would go the individual pedals and switcher/controller route.

Cheers - I can certainly respect that position, but I already have plenty of digital stuff on my existing pedal board setup, and just for myself, I'm not really bothered if things are turned into 1's and 0's at various stages. Part of the attraction of the multi-fx type unit for me is cutting down on all the connecting cables and power leads, and having a lot of fx capability but with a relatively compact setup. I'm happy to concede that you may be right in terms of pure sound quality.

Teetonetal said:

Of course lots of individual stomps are digital now anyway so often a moot point.

I've been round and round with pedal boards and really if it sounds good enough it is good enough.

I have a small boss only board. An insane moogerfooger and other expensive stuff controlled by boss es5 board and a helix.

I use the small board and the helix most. Both sound great. Both serve their application well.

If you have dirt you are happy with, go try the ms3. Sounds like it could be a good fit. 

Thanks - I think you're probably right, I should look at the MS-3. From what I understand, it's not quite perfect for me - I wish it had at least one stereo send and return loop, that could be positioned at or near the end of the effects chain, the reason being I am addicted to the particle reverb on my Zoom MS70-CDR. But I guess I could put that unit after the MS-3, and then it's only one more footswitch to operate to add that. Another plus point for the MS-3 is that I can use my existing F500H volume, which I like, as a volume/expression pedal, and also my Hardwire HT-6 tuner pedal could surely still be on the board - I suspect that will be better/more visible than any built-in tuner.

Voxman

I've tried the HD500, Digitech RP500/1000, Boss GT3/6/10/100, Zoom G5, Zoom G5n, but I either couldn't get them to sound good either through an amp or direct into the board, or they were awful to navigate/tweak for live use.  TheBoss GT100 was IMO the best - built like a tank and the twin screens and switching were good..but I just couldn't get on with the amp modelling that just felt/sounded a bit too sterile and lacked warmth/real amp feel. 

So I'm still using my Vox Tonelab SE and Tonelab LE units.  They may be 'old technology' but (without going into Helix price territory) these are still the best sounding units I've found that are easy to use on stage.  

uncledick

+1 for Tonelab gear.  

Megii

Voxman said:

I've tried the HD500, Digitech RP500/1000, Boss GT3/6/10/100, Zoom G5, Zoom G5n, but I either couldn't get them to sound good either through an amp or direct into the board, or they were awful to navigate/tweak for live use.  TheBoss GT100 was IMO the best - built like a tank and the twin screens and switching were good..but I just couldn't get on with the amp modelling that just felt/sounded a bit too sterile and lacked warmth/real amp feel. 

So I'm still using my Vox Tonelab SE and Tonelab LE units.  They may be 'old technology' but (without going into Helix price territory) these are still the best sounding units I've found that are easy to use on stage.  

Cheers @Voxman  - that is great information, and I guess part of what I was asking really is what you say about the best sounding stuff without going into Helix etc territory. Possibly the amp modelling is less important to me - I always seem fine just with the effects I need and a couple of drive pedals, into a decent-sounding clean amp, and that's enough tonal flexibility for me. But on the other hand, I'd still want to have the modelling capability there, even if a lot of the time I don't use it.

uncledick said:

+1 for Tonelab gear.  

Cheers - obviously good stuff.

Sporky

Funkfingers said:

My opinion is that I dislike any processor between my guitar output jack socket and the loudspeaker(s) of my amplification that turns all of my signal into zeros and ones.

You do understand that your signal is just an abstraction, right? There's no continuous, uninterrupted flow from your fingers right through to the speaker cone.

Teetonetal said:

If you have dirt you are happy with, go try the ms3. Sounds like it could be a good fit. 

I was thinking that too.

Drew_TNBD

Funkfingers said:

My opinion is that I dislike any processor between my guitar output jack socket and the loudspeaker(s) of my amplification that turns all of my signal into zeros and ones.

The only exception that I make to this sweeping generalisation is the Roland VG-99. Obviously, in that instance, the original pitch controlling signal does not always behave like a normal electric guitar anyway. 

In answer to your question, I would go the individual pedals and switcher/controller route.

Someone's never heard of floating point numbers!!

Drew_TNBD

Megii said:

Just wondering about this - I've been looking especially at the Boss GT 100 and also Line 6 Pod HD500X on Youtube but hard to come to any kind of conclusion, and I guess there are plusses and minuses for both. Or, since I have a couple of drive pedals I like a lot, maybe I could get the new Boss MS-3 to use with those. Whatever, I'll almost certainly go with a simple guitar into effects into clean amp kind of setup - that's what I do now with my pedal board. Whatever setup I have needs to be capable of standing up to gigging use, both in terms of sound and durability. Just any thoughts welcome anyhow, cheers.

Line 6 M9
Boss GT-100, GT3, or GT5
TC Electronic Nova System

You could try any of those.

Alnico

I got a BOSS GT100 a few weeks ago.
It's a blessing to get rid of patch leads and power supplies.
The size of it is something I like and the screens are really good, removing the need for what's been termed 'Scribble Strips', which I find actually quite hard to focus on.
I can't afford either Helix and I sold the pedals I had for just the right amount to buy this GT100 so it worked out really well for me.

I just don't get the criticism of the drives or the amp modelling, I find them totally amazing and as accurate as I would ever want them to be. There's a load of patches created by various artists you can download from Boss and Josh Munday has made a load of song specific patches which work really well and sound very authentic.

I was happy anyway to clean up what's on the floor in front of me but I've been nothing but impressed with the sounds and the depth of the unit and what it will do. Every time I use it I find something new (It's still only a few weeks old for me) and whilst I admit it's not a Helix, it feels to me like I could use a lot of what this unit offers where I keep thinking a lot of what Helix has to offer would go unused for me. Maybe that's my budget talking and I would find myself using more of a Helix than I think but I don't feel like I've missed out by having the BOSS. I call it a "Low Fat Helix", which to my mind makes some sense and I'm quite happy with not owning the latest thing, which is something I'm used to anyway.

Whatever comparison you make, for £350 you get so much in this that the value for money is off the scale and with 200 user presets to use, proper Bank up/down pedals and a really good onboard tuner, it's everything I need.
I did also buy the BOSS FS-5L to sit alongside it, purely because I have it assigned as an instant Tuner access switch. On the GT100 you need to press Number 1 and 2 pedals together to access the tuner and I watched a demo (Brett Kingman *I think*) where he used a switch to remotely operate this and it makes it a LOT easier. I'm not sure that if I didn't hit both switches together perfectly it might or might not mess up the patch I was on but this way is just really simple and I wasn't using the SUB/EXP control port for anything else anyway.

There are no 'Loops' like there is on Helix, it's just the Send/Return main loop which you'll use if you're in 4cm but if you're not then you can 'Inject' other pedals into the chain and you can move them around and put them wherever you like, just like Helix can but in 4cm you won't have that functionality.

I love what I've got and I'll be using this for a long time to come now.

Hope that helps somehow.

clarkefan

Don't know about the OP but it sure gave me stuff to think about @Alnico , thanks!

Voxman

Alnico said:

I got a BOSS GT100 a few weeks ago.
It's a blessing to get rid of patch leads and power supplies.
The size of it is something I like and the screens are really good, removing the need for what's been termed 'Scribble Strips', which I find actually quite hard to focus on.
I can't afford either Helix and I sold the pedals I had for just the right amount to buy this GT100 so it worked out really well for me.

I just don't get the criticism of the drives or the amp modelling, I find them totally amazing and as accurate as I would ever want them to be. There's a load of patches created by various artists you can download from Boss and Josh Munday has made a load of song specific patches which work really well and sound very authentic.

As I said, I thought the Boss GT100 was very good.  We all have different ears/needs & the GT100 is great - if I'd never heard nor already had the TLLE/SE I'd probably have gone for it.

Re amp tones its not so much the modelling but the feel and overall sound.  The Boss GT100 on paper has modelling that's more accurate/modern compared to the Tonelab LE/SE. But even so, there's just something about these older Tonelab units (note: the later TonelabEX isn't the same and doesn't have the on-stage live features I need) that feel and sound like you're playing through a real amp - the valve & valvereactor design isn't marketing hype, it really does help with that real amp 'oomph' that I just couldn't get with any other MFX unit - it goes beyond the mere modelling accuracy (which more modern units like the GT100, G5, HD500 etc do far better).  

It's very hard to explain unless and until you play them side-by-side (which I did).  I REALLY wanted the GT100 to 'fit' what I needed.  It's more modern, has dual screens, more modelling, more effects, better connectivity, good switching, right price point etc and I like Boss gear because it's just so well made and designed.  But try as I might I just couldn't get that 'something' I get from the Tonelab LE/SE.  

Alnico

clarkefan said:

Don't know about the OP but it sure gave me stuff to think about @Alnico , thanks!

If anyone is near to Bedford and fancies a coffee and try out my GT100, please do I'm in most days.
Drop me a PM and come round for an hour.
I've got 5 very different guitars here and a Marshall Code 25 amp so there's more than enough variety to see what it will all do, we can hook it up to the laptop and if you can show me how to work a recording program like reaper, you can record it and take it away with you.
Seriously I do very little these days so you're not imposing and if you're thinking of actually buying one, give it a proper go before you do, no problem.
The only drawback is the parking situation. There's only one place to park, it can get very full and it's pay and display. The wardens around here are Nazi's so there's no other option but that aside, you're most welcome.

Grumpyrocker

I've been very happy with my Zoom G3. Sounds great, lots of good effects and it's packed with features. Probably the best value effects unit I've ever owned.

I certainly prefer it to my Pod HD500 - which I've been wrestling angrily with since I foolishly sold my M13 to buy  it at launch.

boogieman

The M13 is very good. Decent sounds, very flexible, bombproof build quality and easy to set up. It's easy to adjust things on the fly too, with no complicated menus. The only thing it lacks is an integrated expression pedal, so for instance if you use wah you'd need a separate pedal. You should be able to pick up a good used one for around £200. 

nickp

second hand you'd get a TC G system.  I guess it depends if you are after 4cm or going straight into the front of the amp.  I like the little TC Nova that I've got with good sounds and analog drives - just bought it as I was fed up of my pedalboards unreliability, but there's little point in having bought nice amps to ditch the pre-amp stages so I'll be looking at something good for 4 cable method.  There's quite a bit of press about the Pod HD500 about tone suck which is concerning

EricTheWeary

boogieman said:

The M13 is very good. Decent sounds, very flexible, bombproof build quality and easy to set up. It's easy to adjust things on the fly too, with no complicated menus. The only thing it lacks is an integrated expression pedal, so for instance if you use wah you'd need a separate pedal. You should be able to pick up a good used one for around £200. 

Generally people don't rate the M series drives very much but that's a common criticism of almost every multi fx. But the OP has his own drives anyway so an M13 or M9 would do the job. Still fairly expensive new for what is now a slightly ageing design that Line 6 abandoned doing the updates for quite quickly so look for one  used IMHO. They don't work with every expression pedal and the Line 6 one is quite cheap and nasty would be my other criticism. Otherwise they got the closest to a multi fx that makes sense for the gigging guitarist with the 9/13.
 Actually the new Boss MS 3 probably makes even more sense because of the loops and it's size but no one seems to like the screen and it costs more than the GT100 to give you the same effects. 

Megii

Cheers for all the replies chaps, plenty to think about. I guess I'm still leaning in the Boss MS-3 direction, but just wish it had a bit higher spec - maybe another loop, and make that a stereo one also. And a better screen would be good, although I think I could live that all the same. Perhaps I should wait for the MS-6 or whatever, if that's on the way...

@Grumpyrocker - my current board actually has a Zoom G3 to handle delays/reverbs/modulations/filter etc. effects (also a Zoom MS70CDR) - and I tend to agree with you about the sound quality of the effects, and the range of them, and also I like that I can have any 6, including several of the same type, in any order. It's great in many ways, but it's become apparent to me that I really need/want better patch switching i.e. the ability to change between completely different patches with one footswitch press. If Zoom made their own version of the Boss MS-3, or perhaps a bit expanded from that, that might be a winner for me.

bloodandtears

Whether you choose Line 6 HD500 or not... this a great heads up for 4cm

Megii

bloodandtears said:

Whether you choose Line 6 HD500 or not... this a great heads up for 4cm

Cheers! although I'm not really a 4cm type of guy, I'm happy just going guitar-FX-clean amp really, and plan to keep to that.