Would you say el84s amps have a brittle top end ?

Telejester

Decisions decisions and I just can't find the head for me. I'm kind of wondering  if 6v6 should be what I should look at, the thought of a telecaster and el84s brittleness isn't too appealing. What do you think, is there an ear poking brittleness where el84s tubes are concerned, I know they aint the last word when it comes to low end.

Modulus_Amps

Depends on the amp design really, allot of EL84 amps don't have negative feedback and so can sound a bit brittle in the high end... but then that is what allot of people like about them too.

Cirrus

It totally depends on the circuit. Totally. Brittle top end could mean a lot of things. Too much top end? Well, that's a circuit design choice. Distorted top end? Again, circuit choice. Too little top end but loads of harmonics from the bass and midrange clouding the sound? Again, circuit choice.

Use EL84s in a fixed bias arrangement within their design specs with negative feedback, well spec'd transformers, clear speakers and a preamp that doesn't produce brittle top end and... no brittle top end. 

DJH83004

You could always check out the Egnator Rebel 30, it has a pair of EL84s and a pair of 6v6 output valves, with a blend control, so you have EL84s or 6v6s or a blend of both. I had one in a while ago for repair, and had a play around with the it, and to be honest in either position it didn't sound that much different, the 6v6s were perhaps a little smoother with lower output. My conclusion at the time was as the guys have said, the circuit topology, pre amp stages and output transformer have more influence on the sound than the output Valve types.

Dominic

Yes they do .......that is the sound and a lot of people want that

crunchman

Dominic said:

Yes they do .......that is the sound and a lot of people want that

Or don't want it.  I've had 4 amps (that I can recall) that had EL84s and I'd say that three out of the four did have a brittle top end.

The fourth one was a Peavey Classic 30, which didn't sound as bad with the stock speaker.  Even there though, when I replaced the stock speaker with a Celestion it had something nasty in the top end.

Personally, I came to the conclusion that I much prefer 6V6s.

BUT... On my Kemper I do find myself using profiles of EL84 amps at times.  It might be that I couldn't get my amps up to the kind of volume where they sounded at their best.  Most amps tend to compress and thicken up when they are turned up.  That thickening of the sound probably takes away some of the high end brittleness.

hywelg

Not heard an EL84 amp yet that isn't when pushed. Especially by some OD pedals.

Kebabkid

Just based on my own 2 experiences, I'd say it depends on the circuit and components.

My Divided hasn't but my amp before, a H&K Tubemeister 36, did

shaunm

I'm not sure that brittle is right but a tele into my 5e3 MJW's was among my favourite tones. Believe me this amp is being pushed hard.

Winny_Pooh

shaunm said:

I'm not sure that brittle is right but a tele into my 5e3 MJW's was among my favourite tones. Believe me this amp is being pushed hard.

5E3s usually have 6V6s ?

shaunm

Winny_Pooh said:

shaunm said:

I'm not sure that brittle is right but a tele into my 5e3 MJW's was among my favourite tones. Believe me this amp is being pushed hard.

5E3s usually have 6V6s ?

True, @martinw  made a bantam with a 5e3 circuit. It had el84's in. Wonderful sounding 18watt 2x10 combo. Not what I would describe as brittle though.

SunDevil

One man's brittle is another's chime, I guess

Pair vs quad makes a difference

One of my fattest amps is a quad of EL84s 

normula1

I don't think I'd describe my Boogie Studio 22 as brittle.

timmysoft

Maybe be the problem with brightness is the guitar and pickups rather than the amp.

Funkfingers

I have a MESA Twenty:Twenty rack power amplifier. It's great but lacks something that I like to hear in an amplifier and which I usually get from 6V6 and 6L6 power stages.

Chalky

Recently modded the lineout on my old version Laney LC15 so that when I plug an external speaker in, it mutes the original crappy HH speaker.  Sounds great through other speakers but I now appreciate that the crappy HH speaker gives more bass and takes off some of the brittle top end - some method in Laney's madness.

impmann

I wouldn't describe the normal channel of a (proper, early 60s) AC30 as 'brittle' even when pushed - yes, it has some great top end clarity but its not fizzy/brittle.

Telejester

What 6v6 amps are some of you guys using ?

Telejester

Nobody here use a 6v6 amp ?

Kebabkid

My Divided has a 6V6 side (9 watts) and an EL84 side (15 watts). I use both but the 6V6 side gets more home use.

There are people here with Fender Deluxe Reverbs, Carr Sportsman and they have 6V6s. There are probably other makes, too.

crunchman

Telejester said:

What 6v6 amps are some of you guys using ?

Princeton Reverb reissue, and VHT Special 6.  My number one amp is a Lazy J with 6L6s though.