Clarky and the Helix

guitarfishbay

gibsongretschfan said:

Benson said:

I agree with the comments so far, I'm really enjoying the Helix, it has some great features and promises a long term future in my home rehearsal setup but the amp modelling isn't as realistic as the AxFXII or even the Ax8 which I'll continue to use in my live rig. 

More of that "perceived" internet wisdom popping through again I see

I thought he owned a Helix and AX8? That's how it reads to me, if so his opinion is valid based on personal experience.

Jonathanthomas83

Delete this! and ignore my stupidity

guitarfishbay

I thought the thread had been pretty balanced actually.

Clarky might well be a Fractal Fan but it's in his interests to get the Helix working for him too. I'm a Fractal fan but I still want to try Helix native for myself as it has some bass stuff not in the Fractal gear. Quite a few guys have already tried both Helix and Fractal, so I'm not seeing much "perceived wisdom" really

Benson

guitarfishbay said:

gibsongretschfan said:

More of that "perceived" internet wisdom popping through again I see

I thought he owned a Helix and AX8? That's how it reads to me, if so his opinion is valid based on personal experience.

Yup, owned many Fractal products over the years and currently own an Ax8 and a Helix and stand by my comments.  Regarding the earlier comment seems trollers gotta troll

Drew_TNBD

Jonathanthomas83 said:

Drew_TNBD said:

I prefer the Helix amp modelling, FWIW.

That surprises me. As someone who has spent a long time with both units I can clearly hear the superior sound in the Fractal. Given your background I didn't expect you to have that opinion. Hope that doesn't offend.

I too have spent a long time with both units, the Kemper as well.

I find the Helix is much quicker to get a usable sound with. The Fractal when I had one took way too long to get the sounds I wanted, and I found the low-end was always very difficult to control.

I also really appreciate the simplicity of the available controls. The amps just sound more like real amps right out of the gate to me.

Jonathanthomas83

Things have moved on, to my understanding. I can't be absolutely sure becauseI don't know how long ago it was that you tried one, but the general concensus is that the new FW (Quantum) is just better. I can often go to an amp and it'll sound great without changing any defaults. Subjective, of course. 

Can't say I've struggled with low end, I've heard it but never struggled to dial it out or tighten it up.

I will agree that UI on Helix is immense and I got some nice stuff out of it, not as keen on those tones as I am with the Fractal though.

Drew_TNBD

Check this out:


Let me know what you think.

guitarfishbay

Yeah I think that's where personal taste comes in. Each unit does seem to have some amount of sonic signature.

I find the Axe FX very easy to dial in quickly for my tastes. The main thing I've preferred consistently vs Helix clips is the low end. The Helix high gain amp bass seems wider but less punchy, like it's either got less transient, or it's hitting at a deeper frequency. That probably does make it easier to control. I remember either band passing/low passing all the .wavs in the comparison we did and thinking the order of punch was Amp - Fractal - Line 6. But that's less about the deeper low end more upper bass I guess.

Regardless I use EMGs so I doubt I'd have deep low end issues on anything, they chop off most of the sub at source for dat tightness.

Drew_TNBD

Obviously I haven't A/B'd them next to each other, so I'm just going on my memory and what we did in that video.

There have been a ton of videos comparing them. Those ones Mitch Baker did were responsible for a lot of the Fractal guys sitting up and taking notice of the Helix. If you go back and watch those videos, quite a few of the models sounded better on the Helix than the Fractal. The Recto sounded way better on the Fractal though, so it's by no means a rule.

I still prefer a real amp for recording though.

guitarfishbay

Yeah I'm not saying the Helix sounds bad - just the main reasons I'd buy a unit, mostly getting 5150 and Rectifier and similar tones I like, point me towards Fractal, for my tastes.

There have been bass and clean to mid-gain sounds I've thought sounded great on the Helix. The main reason I want to try Native is the bass gear.

Jonathanthomas83

I will watch that later, promise. Like you, I've watched loads of comparisons too. They're all so similar but yet we could pick holes all day long.

It came down to feel for me, I expect a tight thud when I do palm muted arpeggios. And a clean and full bodied saturation for chords. For clean sounds, I like bell like tones, like a sustained piano. The Axe FX delivered the feel I wanted.

I think the key is that we're all looking for something different.

ThePrettyDamned

Jonathanthomas83 said:

Drew_TNBD said:

I prefer the Helix amp modelling, FWIW.

That surprises me. As someone who has spent a long time with both units I can clearly hear the superior sound in the Fractal. Given your background I didn't expect you to have that opinion. Hope that doesn't offend.

I've seen a good few shootouts on YouTube that show you can dial them for similar sounds - so it's purely personal preference. 

Describing a tone as "superior" suggests it's quantifiable - how did you quantify the axe fx versus the helix? 

ThePrettyDamned

guitarfishbay said:

Yeah I'm not saying the Helix sounds bad - just the main reasons I'd buy a unit, mostly getting 5150 and Rectifier and similar tones I like, point me towards Fractal, for my tastes.

There have been bass and clean to mid-gain sounds I've thought sounded great on the Helix. The main reason I want to try Native is the bass gear.

Interestingly, I listened to an ac30 and ac15 comparison between the units and the helix definitely sounded better as-is. Once the afx was dialled in (which took a bit more effort iirc) they sounded absolutely identical. Of course, it's YouTube so...

I think it's fair to say most people are beyond saying one sounds better than the other - it's about what works for the individual. 

guitarfishbay

It's all personal preference at the end of the day.

Having owned an AC30 combo, and a Rectifier half stack, the Axe FX models sound like they should and are easy to dial in for my tastes. 

I dont actually think many people are well placed to do a good neutral comparison, whether by imbalance of experience with each unit or by personal motivation (wanting X to beat Y). Plus the methodology is impossible to make totally fair - if you pick a comparison IR it's likely to favour the stock voicing of one sim over the other anyway, meaning all dials the same isn't that useful.

I thought the comparison Drew did was about as fair as it could be made, assuming that I don't suck that is (I dialled in the Axe FX patches).

Jonathanthomas83

ThePrettyDamned said:

Jonathanthomas83 said:

Drew_TNBD said:

I prefer the Helix amp modelling, FWIW.

That surprises me. As someone who has spent a long time with both units I can clearly hear the superior sound in the Fractal. Given your background I didn't expect you to have that opinion. Hope that doesn't offend.

I've seen a good few shootouts on YouTube that show you can dial them for similar sounds - so it's purely personal preference. 

Describing a tone as "superior" suggests it's quantifiable - how did you quantify the axe fx versus the helix? 

Probably isn't quantifiable and a tangible way. Like I said above, the Fractal just felt more like a real amp to me.  Believe me, I wanted the Helix to work for me but the Fractal offered more in terms of what I wanted in lots of ways. I'd buy a Helix in a heartbeat if only for the UI, but I don't need it.

@Drew_TNBD I've heard those clips before and definitely passed comment on it elsewhere, great video and congratulations on some sterling work :-) My two pence, I think the real thing sounds the best and the Helix sounds great too. I don't tune down to C and tend to stay in standard tuning, mostly and don't have to deal with such low frequencies usually - so my use case is slightly different.

guitarfishbay

I tune to a low B and hate the world for it hah, makes everything more difficult, but that's the key we need to write in for the singer'a range.

ThePrettyDamned

guitarfishbay said:

It's all personal preference at the end of the day.

Having owned an AC30 combo, and a Rectifier half stack, the Axe FX models sound like they should and are easy to dial in for my tastes. 

I dont actually think many people are well placed to do a good neutral comparison, whether by imbalance of experience with each unit or by personal motivation (wanting X to beat Y). Plus the methodology is impossible to make totally fair - if you pick a comparison IR it's likely to favour the stock voicing of one sim over the other anyway, meaning all dials the same isn't that useful.

I thought the comparison Drew did was about as fair as it could be made, assuming that I don't suck that is (I dialled in the Axe FX patches).

Interestingly, I loved (seriously) the ac30 model on the pod farm software (probably similar to a pod 2?). Perhaps it's relatively easy to model? The feel wasn't quite there, but old school foo fighters and generally great sounds were there. 

I agree about comparing them - it's almost pointless. It either works or it doesn't - if someone offered me a straight swap for my pedal board and amp for a helix I'd have it as it sounds great and is easily used. I'd do the same for an axe fx or kemper to be fair! 

gibsongretschfan

guitarfishbay said:

gibsongretschfan said:

Benson said:

I agree with the comments so far, I'm really enjoying the Helix, it has some great features and promises a long term future in my home rehearsal setup but the amp modelling isn't as realistic as the AxFXII or even the Ax8 which I'll continue to use in my live rig. 

More of that "perceived" internet wisdom popping through again I see

I thought he owned a Helix and AX8? That's how it reads to me, if so his opinion is valid based on personal experience.

I'm sorry but if he hasn't realised that the modelling on the AxFX and Ax8 are the exact same thing then I can't really take his opinion on whether they are superior to Helix or not

gibsongretschfan

Benson said:

guitarfishbay said:

gibsongretschfan said:

More of that "perceived" internet wisdom popping through again I see

I thought he owned a Helix and AX8? That's how it reads to me, if so his opinion is valid based on personal experience.

Yup, owned many Fractal products over the years and currently own an Ax8 and a Helix and stand by my comments.  Regarding the earlier comment seems trollers gotta troll

How in gods name is that a troll? If you can't hear, feel or plain just read a manual to know that the AxFXII and Ax8 have the exact same modelling then how can your opinion on whether they are better than Helix be?

Yeah everyone's a troll....

Benson

gibsongretschfan said:

guitarfishbay said:

gibsongretschfan said:

Benson said:

I agree with the comments so far, I'm really enjoying the Helix, it has some great features and promises a long term future in my home rehearsal setup but the amp modelling isn't as realistic as the AxFXII or even the Ax8 which I'll continue to use in my live rig. 

More of that "perceived" internet wisdom popping through again I see

I thought he owned a Helix and AX8? That's how it reads to me, if so his opinion is valid based on personal experience.

I'm sorry but if he hasn't realised that the modelling on the AxFX and Ax8 are the exact same thing then I can't really take his opinion on whether they are superior to Helix or not

Oh silly boy. The modelling may be exactly the same but the amount of horsepower that allows you to apply the modelling in the context of a preset with other blocks and scenes is very different between the different Fractal platforms. Perhaps if you understood this about the Fractal product set you wouldn't be making a show of yourself in this thread ...