Clarky and the Helix

Clarky

Drew_TNBD said:

This is my "do everything" patch...

Guitar comes in and is immediately split to it's own digital output in order for me to capture DI's.
It also gets routed through a fairly standard for me 'pedalboard' setup.
The output of the pedalboard is then split to FX Loop 1, which is my real amp. It goes through a noise gate and then out the main output in order to complete my 4-cable method setup.
The output of the pedalboard is also split to two amps and a cab, and that goes to it's own digital output too. So I can record an amp modelled version of the sound, alongside the DI.
Then it's just a case of putting a microphone in front of my cab, and I can record my real amp at the same time too!

Works very well.

very nice solution… have a wiz..

Clarky

major voyages of discovery today..
found some good things and not so good things..

the 6 tap delay is… erm… a bit crap..
you don't have complete control over all taps..

I did manage to create my clean morphs to pad
but the pad tone is not close to what I get with the Axe or VG-99
mostly because the pitch shifter is not good with chords.. it's just not good enough when playing more than one note..

discovered that I can assign the split A/B to controllers.. this is really seriously useful to control the level per snapshot you can send to a path2b loop [which contains a delay in parallel]

the delays lack an 'input-level' control which is a pain in the ass..
in the Axe, this controls how much signal enters the wet side of the delay
so for example… I have a riffing tone that cleans and adds delay via the expression pedal [as it goes heel down]..
I assigned the delay's mix control to the pedal [toe=0 / heel=50]
tow down, riffing is nice and dry..
heel down, tone cleans and the delay comes in nicely..
back to toe down, the delay tails vanish.. which sounds un-natural..
solution:
place the delay in parallel with a Vol block in front of it
set the delay's mix=100
Vol assigned to the pedal toe=0 / heel=100
assign the split A/B to snapshot to route path2a / 2b 75% / 25% respectively for this snapshot
so….
heel down, cleaned with delay..
move to toe down and riff dry but the delay tails will be able to fade and so sounds more natural

the phasers are shockingly poor.. far too polite.. not chewy enough..
the chorus is pretty..
the dual pitch shifter when used for stereo spreading is really rather nice when set +5cents left / -6 cents right, mix in the low 20's.. it's subtle 'seen and not heard stuff.. so you don't notice it until you bypass it and then the tone goes a little flat.. which is just how it should be..

I'm coming to the conclusion that I reckon I can make all of my required tones with all the control feature..
but [a big but at that]… I'll need to split what I currently do with the Axe in a single preset into a couple of presets in the Helix.. I'd need to analyse the tone transitions mid-song to work out if I can find a way of ensuring I don't do preset changes mid-song.. because preset changes will be double tap [hit bank then hit preset to get back to snapshots]..
in a song in 17/8 this will be a major pain in the rear..
I will also need more presets to get through a gig

it's a nice unit and has many great features.. a joy to configure
some of the tones I'm getting are working quite well so I'm convinced that with time and effort I could get it to where I want it to be.. feel wise though it's still lacking something.. there's not enough compression with the hi-gain tones so you have that hi-gain tone, but a mid-gain feel.. not good for a shredder with a very light touch..
and I run out of DSP too quickly.. so I keep getting almost there.. but never quite make it..
the paths are a nice idea.. but I miss the grid so much.. the grid in the Axe is just sooooooo powerful..

so… could I live with a Helix???
yes I reckon I could..
the next question is do I want to [even to save weight on a flight]???
I'm not sure..

I will continue noodling with it though until I have to return it in Sept..
I may uncover more solutions that'll change my mind..

relic245

Been watching this thread with interest. 

I'm considering getting a helix later I  the year, I'm really enjoying Clarky's adventures and is encouraging how a pro rates it, despite its limitations for him. 

Thing that's scary though is how much time a mere mortals will have to invest in getting something good from it. 

Jonathanthomas83

relic245 said:

Thing that's scary though is how much time a mere mortals will have to invest in getting something good from it. 

Not really, it's not the time it takes to get something good, that doesn't take an awful long time once you know how. What does take time is to figure out complex routing and ways to achieve complex effects setups, which is what Clarky is doing (correct me if I'm wrong). 

In a similar vein, but nowhere near as complex, I'm currently trying my best to recreate a very specific shimmer (using particular intervals) from the Big Sky with my Axe FX - which has no dedicated Shimmer engine on either the reverb or the delay, so it takes some creativity. I'm 90% there but it's a complex thing to achieve. These things may not be obviously achievable at first glance, so it takes some time to get used to the capabilities of the unit so that you can find an alternative way to do things. 

Getting something good out of both the Helix and Fractal has never taken very long at all, in my experience anyway and many would agree.

John_A

Clarky, and others have very complex requirements which would take a while to figure out how to get there no matter what the gear, nothing to do with the fact he's a 'pro'. Others have much simpler requirements, I can get through a gig with a basic clean, crunch, dirty and a lead sound and getting to the stage I was happy with these on the Helix took no time at all.  Like most guitarists I'm constantly refining things, but that's not an issue with the Helix I'd be doing the same with an amp and pedals

relic245

Ok thanks. That makes me feel better. 

My needs are simple. I can easily gig with light crunch, slightly heavier crunch and lead. 

Very occasionally I get really adventurous and add a bit of delay or phaser but that's about it. 

What attracts me though are the options. When I have a fender amp, after a while a hanker after a Marshall and vice versa. The idea of being able to do that from 1 unit really appeals. 

Jonathanthomas83

relic245 said:

What attracts me though are the options. When I have a fender amp, after a while a hanker after a Marshall and vice versa. The idea of being able to do that from 1 unit really appeals. 

That was the final nail in the coffin for my trusty valve amp and pedals. Love it!

Clarky

relic245 said:

Been watching this thread with interest. 

I'm considering getting a helix later I  the year, I'm really enjoying Clarky's adventures and is encouraging how a pro rates it, despite its limitations for him. 

Thing that's scary though is how much time a mere mortals will have to invest in getting something good from it. 

your first question with any fx unit is…
what are your needs??

my needs due to the morphing etc are not easy to solve and take a lot of time to set up.. 
even if you have previous experience creating solutions like this
I've been using this sort of config since the early 90's so I have plenty of previous knowhow to fall back on..
I reckon my config needs place me in fewer than 1% of all guitarists

most fellas want a few amps and some stomps which is far simpler to config..
this being the case the Helix is an excellent unit.. very easy to use..
and you still have plenty of scope to be more adventurous

the final part is tone and feel.. 
this is down to your ear and your playing style..
you must try one and find out for yourself to see if it can hit the spot..

Clarky

Jonathanthomas83 said:

relic245 said:

Thing that's scary though is how much time a mere mortals will have to invest in getting something good from it. 

Not really, it's not the time it takes to get something good, that doesn't take an awful long time once you know how. What does take time is to figure out complex routing and ways to achieve complex effects setups, which is what Clarky is doing (correct me if I'm wrong). 

In a similar vein, but nowhere near as complex, I'm currently trying my best to recreate a very specific shimmer (using particular intervals) from the Big Sky with my Axe FX - which has no dedicated Shimmer engine on either the reverb or the delay, so it takes some creativity. I'm 90% there but it's a complex thing to achieve. These things may not be obviously achievable at first glance, so it takes some time to get used to the capabilities of the unit so that you can find an alternative way to do things. 

Getting something good out of both the Helix and Fractal has never taken very long at all, in my experience anyway and many would agree.

absolutely…

it's also worth noting
having never seen this unit before, I created my first basic no bells and whistles preset using 4 snapshots within 30 or 40 minutes..
within the next 30 mins I had snapshots and the expression pedal controlling parameters..
this included looking through the manual and learning how to configure from he front panel as well as using the editor..

so it was after that first hour and a bit that I started working out how to get it to jump through my own specific and rather tricky hoops

Clarky

John_A said:

Clarky, and others have very complex requirements which would take a while to figure out how to get there no matter what the gear, nothing to do with the fact he's a 'pro'. Others have much simpler requirements, I can get through a gig with a basic clean, crunch, dirty and a lead sound and getting to the stage I was happy with these on the Helix took no time at all.  Like most guitarists I'm constantly refining things, but that's not an issue with the Helix I'd be doing the same with an amp and pedals

absolutely..
it's worth noting that getting my Axe presets where they are today took hundreds of hours of experimentation and fine tuning..

Drew_TNBD

relic245 said:

Been watching this thread with interest. 

I'm considering getting a helix later I  the year, I'm really enjoying Clarky's adventures and is encouraging how a pro rates it, despite its limitations for him. 

Thing that's scary though is how much time a mere mortals will have to invest in getting something good from it. 

Just remember, Clarky is a freak!  
 
Most normal people have reasonable needs!!  

Clarky

Jonathanthomas83 said:

relic245 said:

What attracts me though are the options. When I have a fender amp, after a while a hanker after a Marshall and vice versa. The idea of being able to do that from 1 unit really appeals. 

That was the final nail in the coffin for my trusty valve amp and pedals. Love it!

I've always described the Axe as being like owning a warehouse full of amps.. over 200 models..
it's wonderful…
that said.. live I use 3 models.. studio I use less than 10

Clarky

Drew_TNBD said:

relic245 said:

Been watching this thread with interest. 

I'm considering getting a helix later I  the year, I'm really enjoying Clarky's adventures and is encouraging how a pro rates it, despite its limitations for him. 

Thing that's scary though is how much time a mere mortals will have to invest in getting something good from it. 

Just remember, Clarky is a freak!  
 
Most normal people have reasonable needs!!  

this is a true and well know fact… lol..
you need another wiz

fretmeister

C'Mon @Clarky ;
 Set that drop box up with your patches!

fretmeister

Also

Now that Helix Native is here, you might solve your DSP problem by using a laptop and a suitable foot controller.
That would weigh less for flying.

IIRC You can use Native with DSP limits like the hardware, or turn the limits off and go nuts.

Clarky

fretmeister said:

C'Mon @Clarky ;
 Set that drop box up with your patches!

that's not a bad idea… reckon I can do this...

Clarky

fretmeister said:

Also

Now that Helix Native is here, you might solve your DSP problem by using a laptop and a suitable foot controller.
That would weigh less for flying.

IIRC You can use Native with DSP limits like the hardware, or turn the limits off and go nuts.

DSP limits are only part of the prob for me..
at least so far…
I need to try some more config ideas..
my biggest concern is having to change preset mid-song: double tap [bank then select preset]
cos that's certainly not something I could live with.. not with the sort of crap I play live..

Drew_TNBD

Clarky said:

fretmeister said:

Also

Now that Helix Native is here, you might solve your DSP problem by using a laptop and a suitable foot controller.
That would weigh less for flying.

IIRC You can use Native with DSP limits like the hardware, or turn the limits off and go nuts.

DSP limits are only part of the prob for me..
at least so far…
I need to try some more config ideas..
my biggest concern is having to change preset mid-song: double tap [bank then select preset]
cos that's certainly not something I could live with.. not with the sort of crap I play live..

Maybe I'm not quite getting it dude.... why do you need two presets again??

Digital_Igloo

Clarky said:

my biggest concern is having to change preset mid-song: double tap [bank then select preset]
cos that's certainly not something I could live with.. not with the sort of crap I play live..

Why would you have to do that? Preset mode lets you access up to 8 presets instantly, with one switch. Or if you put your presets in order, the UP/DOWN switches can be set to preset up/down (or snapshot up/down) and access all 128 presets in a setlist sequentially.

You can also assign Command Center messages to recall any setlist, preset, and or snapshot in the unit, so with a short MIDI cable, any preset can go to any other preset.

Clarky

Drew_TNBD said:

Clarky said:

fretmeister said:

Also

Now that Helix Native is here, you might solve your DSP problem by using a laptop and a suitable foot controller.
That would weigh less for flying.

IIRC You can use Native with DSP limits like the hardware, or turn the limits off and go nuts.

DSP limits are only part of the prob for me..
at least so far…
I need to try some more config ideas..
my biggest concern is having to change preset mid-song: double tap [bank then select preset]
cos that's certainly not something I could live with.. not with the sort of crap I play live..

Maybe I'm not quite getting it dude.... why do you need two presets again??

because I have so much functionality running in a single preset in the Axe that I need to get me through one specific song..
I'm thinking [bit of a guess right now] that I'll need to create 2 presets in the Helix to cover it all