Anyone use external mic preamps?

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Emp_FabEmp_Fab Frets: 24210
The singer in the band I've just joined fancies getting a preamp for his SM58.  I know nothing about them other than what I've just read on Thomann's site, including that they're almost exclusively used with condenser mics.

Has anyone used one with a dynamic mic and did it improve things much?  I don't think he's got the budget to upgrade to a better mic, so maybe a cheap valve pre might help?
Lack of planning on your part does not constitute an emergency on mine.
Also chips are "Plant-based" no matter how you cook them.
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  • digitalscreamdigitalscream Frets: 26459
    What's it for - recording or live use? What's the current setup?

    What does he want it to do? Or, rather, what does he think it's going to add that the current setup doesn't?
    <space for hire>
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  • Emp_FabEmp_Fab Frets: 24210
    edited August 2017
    Live use.  I have no idea what the goal is. I think it's the drummer's suggestion.  He obviously feels something is missing from the vocal reproduction and that a valve pre will cure it.  Beyond that I don't know I'm afraid.  The current setup, I think, is SM58 into a Behringer Eurorack mixer into a pair of powered speakers.
    Lack of planning on your part does not constitute an emergency on mine.
    Also chips are "Plant-based" no matter how you cook them.
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  • digitalscreamdigitalscream Frets: 26459
    Emp_Fab said:
    Live use.  I have no idea what the goal is. I think it's the drummer's suggestion.  He obviously feels something is missing from the vocal reproduction and that a valve pre will cure it.  Beyond that I don't know I'm afraid.  The current setup, I think, is SM58 into a Behringer Eurorack mixer into a pair of powered speakers.
    I very much doubt that a valve pre will solve anything that a new mic wouldn't. Is it a Beta 58? If so, it's possible that he's clipping the input of the mixer's preamp.

    Also...does he cup the mic with his hands? Improper mic technique like that is usually the culprit if the vocal's not come through clearly.
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  • Emp_FabEmp_Fab Frets: 24210
    I think I need to get on their desk and have a twiddle before he goes buying stuff.
    Lack of planning on your part does not constitute an emergency on mine.
    Also chips are "Plant-based" no matter how you cook them.
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  • digitalscreamdigitalscream Frets: 26459
    Emp_Fab said:
    I think I need to get on their desk and have a twiddle before he goes buying stuff.
    Definitely the best plan. Also, look at him while he's singing - if he does this:


    or this:


    ...then the problem is him, not the mic or the preamp. This is an easy guide:


    Basically...






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  • Winny_PoohWinny_Pooh Frets: 7732
    edited August 2017
    Buying a better mic will make a larger difference over a preamp. Identify what he's unhappy with first.
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  • John_PJohn_P Frets: 2744
    A good preamp can make a big difference if you're using an old / budget desk but usually that's  for recording - live it's an extra complication and just getting a better mic or improving technique (mic and mixing) would be a lot easier.   
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  • ESBlondeESBlonde Frets: 3576
    What is the PA like? If you've got a basic low powered amp into a 15" with a piezo horn then throwing money at the wrong component is futile. The reproduction as as good as the weakest link in the chain. SM58s were industry standard for decades and whilst they are average and expensive by comparison to thier modern equivelents (including the Beta 58) they are very dependent of the systems ability ro reproduce. A big concert rig with a basic SM58 sounds good, although a better mic does have some small benefits. Introducing a mic pre is almost certainly not the answer to your dilema.
    tell us about the system and let us spend his money fr him,

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  • Emp_FabEmp_Fab Frets: 24210
    I'll report back once I've had a fiddle.  I'm pretty sure its a cheap Behringer 24 CH mixer into a couple of Carlsbro powered 15"+horn jobbies.  The only info I have right now re the problem is that the vocals lack "volume and warmth" at bigger venues.  It could be anything at this stage though..
    Lack of planning on your part does not constitute an emergency on mine.
    Also chips are "Plant-based" no matter how you cook them.
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  • CirrusCirrus Frets: 8481
    I absolutely promise that unless it's broken, the mic is not the weak link and a standalone mic preamp will be a waste of money too. If it sounds bad, it's some combination of the speakers, the singer's mic technique and the mixing desk/ power amp, probably in that order.
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  • digitalscreamdigitalscream Frets: 26459
    Also - I'm somewhat confused as to how the drummer can tell there's something wrong with the vocal reproduction through the PA when he is (by definition) sat on the wrong side of the PA to be able to hear the FoH mix, and surrounded by Very Loud Things which are going to muddy up anything he hears anyway.
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  • octatonicoctatonic Frets: 33725
    Complete waste of time for live.
    When recording then preamp differences can be subtle, especially once all the other instruments pile in on too.

    Using a different mic is the way to go.
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  • Winny_PoohWinny_Pooh Frets: 7732
    An Electro Voice ND767a would be a good option used, smoother and more gain. Sennheiser have a number of good mics too. 
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  • Just a small observation, but mics do die including SM58's. One indication of this is them becoming thin and tinny over time.
    www.maltingsaudio.co.uk
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  • Danny1969Danny1969 Frets: 10357
    For live use think more about the best mic in terms of amplifying the voice and not the drums \ backline etc  behind the singer etc  ..... as the size of the stages (more like corner of pub \ pool table area \  pub garden patio etc ) most of us play in means the mic is picking up a lot more than the singer. To a certain extent the pickup pattern is more important to me than any rich or smooth tone. 

    A decent quality dynamic mic with a reasonably tight pattern like a 58, 845, 945 etc is all anyone needs in a live situation. Pre amps do make a difference in a studio situation, especially in terms of non linear character for drums and ultra low noise and clarity for female vocal but there's no point at all in using a high quality pre amp with a 58 into a Behringer desk or similar 
    www.2020studios.co.uk 
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