Helix Native

Teetonetal

@guitarfishbay ;I haven't used helix yet as a bass amp... wondering if you were to gig it, would you just go direct into pa or do the FRFR thing?

guitarfishbay

Teetonetal said:

@guitarfishbay ;I haven't used helix yet as a bass amp... wondering if you were to gig it, would you just go direct into pa or do the FRFR thing?

That would really depend on your monitoring and PA situation, and there's no reason you can't send a FOH signal and also have something on stage as your monitor. But the sounds are in it for sure so either way would work. 

I think @fretmeister and @Bridgehouse are the guys who might've tried this.

fretmeister

Both.

I never run bass in stereo.

So a DXR10 as a wedge for me, and the other XLR to FOH.

But I really like the Helix in 4CM for bass use as well - into my Darkglass M900 and then trad bass cabs. The amp has a good DI too.

Heartfeltdawn

guitarfishbay said:

Ok I just loaded up the S Gear 2 demo and the Wayfarer is killer.  

Haven't even looked up the price of S gear or even what the Wayfarer is modelled on if anything at all... just straight out of the gate that's a lot closer to what I want from an amp sim and I don't feel like I need to reach for advanced parameters, actually I don't even know if there are any.

S-Gear is streets ahead of everything else in my view. I installed the Helix Native demo and just a Rat into a Deluxe Reverb sounded awful. S-Gear just sounds and feels right. 

Disappointed by Helix Native. Running it in the DAW and comparing it to the Fractal FX8, I'm on the Fractal side when it comes to effects. 

Digital_Igloo

Heartfeltdawn said:

guitarfishbay said:

Ok I just loaded up the S Gear 2 demo and the Wayfarer is killer.  

Haven't even looked up the price of S gear or even what the Wayfarer is modelled on if anything at all... just straight out of the gate that's a lot closer to what I want from an amp sim and I don't feel like I need to reach for advanced parameters, actually I don't even know if there are any.

S-Gear is streets ahead of everything else in my view. I installed the Helix Native demo and just a Rat into a Deluxe Reverb sounded awful. S-Gear just sounds and feels right. 

Disappointed by Helix Native. Running it in the DAW and comparing it to the Fractal FX8, I'm on the Fractal side when it comes to effects. 

Something's fishy. I've been using both S-Gear and Helix Native all summer on a record and if you're hearing "awful", definitely check your input level. Your guitar tracks should stay in the green; that is, –18 ~ –36dB. Compensate with the output slider.

Not saying you're not hearing what you're hearing, but about 50 big engineers in LA have been using it with great success.

octatonic

Digital_Igloo said:

Heartfeltdawn said:

guitarfishbay said:

Ok I just loaded up the S Gear 2 demo and the Wayfarer is killer.  

Haven't even looked up the price of S gear or even what the Wayfarer is modelled on if anything at all... just straight out of the gate that's a lot closer to what I want from an amp sim and I don't feel like I need to reach for advanced parameters, actually I don't even know if there are any.

S-Gear is streets ahead of everything else in my view. I installed the Helix Native demo and just a Rat into a Deluxe Reverb sounded awful. S-Gear just sounds and feels right. 

Disappointed by Helix Native. Running it in the DAW and comparing it to the Fractal FX8, I'm on the Fractal side when it comes to effects. 

Something's fishy. I've been using both S-Gear and Helix Native all summer on a record and if you're hearing "awful", definitely check your input level. Your guitar tracks should stay in the green; that is, –18 ~ –36dB. Compensate with the output slider.

Not saying you're not hearing what you're hearing, but about 50 big engineers in LA have been using it with great success.

Agree- they are both excellent plugins but they do different things.
I'm not hearing anything bad about the Helix- the obvious difference is when you instantiate  Helix the default patches are lower in volume than S Gear, but that is easily remedied.

When I get sounds at roughly the same level and A/B them they are pretty much on par.
I do prefer the modelling of S Gear for traditional guitar tones but there isn't a whole lot in it.
We are very lucky to have this embarrassment of riches right now.

Aidanspaghetti

Is anybody using a NI session i/o (Guitar rig thingy) w/reaper and making it work? 
Cant do it aaaaaaaarggggh.

Digital_Igloo

octatonic said:

Digital_Igloo said:

Something's fishy. I've been using both S-Gear and Helix Native all summer on a record and if you're hearing "awful", definitely check your input level. Your guitar tracks should stay in the green; that is, –18 ~ –36dB. Compensate with the output slider.

Not saying you're not hearing what you're hearing, but about 50 big engineers in LA have been using it with great success.

Agree- they are both excellent plugins but they do different things.
I'm not hearing anything bad about the Helix- the obvious difference is when you instantiate  Helix the default patches are lower in volume than S Gear, but that is easily remedied.

When I get sounds at roughly the same level and A/B them they are pretty much on par.
I do prefer the modelling of S Gear for traditional guitar tones but there isn't a whole lot in it.
We are very lucky to have this embarrassment of riches right now.

Yeah, we find S-Gear's about 4dB hotter. It's also appears optimized for signals between instrument and line level—good for some use cases, bad for others.

Drew_TNBD

I'll go on record.... I didn't really rate S-Gear when I tried it. Every single tone I got from it sounded like a small boutique blues tone, even the really high gain stuff and even when using 4x12 impulses. I couldn't get the sort of 5150/Diezel/Mesa saturation that I was looking for from any of the models.

If I was going to pick a software modeller that I'd compare Helix to, it would definitely be Amplitube and Guitar Rig. 

gibsongretschfan

Drew_TNBD said:

I'll go on record.... I didn't really rate S-Gear when I tried it. Every single tone I got from it sounded like a small boutique blues tone, even the really high gain stuff and even when using 4x12 impulses. I couldn't get the sort of 5150/Diezel/Mesa saturation that I was looking for from any of the models.

If I was going to pick a software modeller that I'd compare Helix to, it would definitely be Amplitube and Guitar Rig. 

S-Gear doesn't have a high gain amp. The closer it comes is the Soldano-esque model. That's a bit like saying you didn't rate a 59 Les Paul because it doesn't Djent 

stratman3142

Drew_TNBD said:

I'll go on record.... I didn't really rate S-Gear when I tried it. Every single tone I got from it sounded like a small boutique blues tone, even the really high gain stuff and even when using 4x12 impulses. I couldn't get the sort of 5150/Diezel/Mesa saturation that I was looking for from any of the models.

If I was going to pick a software modeller that I'd compare Helix to, it would definitely be Amplitube and Guitar Rig. 

I think you're correct regarding high gain sounds from S Gear. On the rare occasions I want a high gain tone I tend to use Kazrog. But I'm not an expert on high gain sounds and most of the time S Gear suits the style of music I play.

Teetonetal

Drew_TNBD said:

I'll go on record.... I didn't really rate S-Gear when I tried it. Every single tone I got from it sounded like a small boutique blues tone, even the really high gain stuff and even when using 4x12 impulses. I couldn't get the sort of 5150/Diezel/Mesa saturation that I was looking for from any of the models.

If I was going to pick a software modeller that I'd compare Helix to, it would definitely be Amplitube and Guitar Rig. 

I also would agree, it's not a metal or high gain plugin, not without a lot of work... it excels at clean, low / mid gain. I wonder if high gain might be addressed in a future update. But for me I'd rather know that it's quality at what it does verses having way too many options that are not so well implemented. 

guitarfishbay

Yeah S gear doesn't have anything that sounds outright metal - but using a tube screamer sim into the Wayfarer sounds and feels pretty good for tight and crunchy. None of the S Gear sims have that deeper low end big thunk. But I still think they sound good. The clean amp sounds decent too.

Drew_TNBD

gibsongretschfan said:

Drew_TNBD said:

I'll go on record.... I didn't really rate S-Gear when I tried it. Every single tone I got from it sounded like a small boutique blues tone, even the really high gain stuff and even when using 4x12 impulses. I couldn't get the sort of 5150/Diezel/Mesa saturation that I was looking for from any of the models.

If I was going to pick a software modeller that I'd compare Helix to, it would definitely be Amplitube and Guitar Rig. 

S-Gear doesn't have a high gain amp. The closer it comes is the Soldano-esque model. That's a bit like saying you didn't rate a 59 Les Paul because it doesn't Djent 

Yeah I didn't rate the 59 Les Paul I tried either. Just wasn't metulz enuf.

guitarfishbay

Drew_TNBD said:

gibsongretschfan said:

Drew_TNBD said:

I'll go on record.... I didn't really rate S-Gear when I tried it. Every single tone I got from it sounded like a small boutique blues tone, even the really high gain stuff and even when using 4x12 impulses. I couldn't get the sort of 5150/Diezel/Mesa saturation that I was looking for from any of the models.

If I was going to pick a software modeller that I'd compare Helix to, it would definitely be Amplitube and Guitar Rig. 

S-Gear doesn't have a high gain amp. The closer it comes is the Soldano-esque model. That's a bit like saying you didn't rate a 59 Les Paul because it doesn't Djent 

Yeah I didn't rate the 59 Les Paul I tried either. Just wasn't metulz enuf.

I couldn't play a 50s neck Les Paul the way I wanted...  neck way too huge.  Maybe if you just play thumb over blues licks in one position its very comfy.  Felt like i was straining my hand to play thumb round the back with bigger chord stretches.  Maybe I don't have big enough hands...

Drew_TNBD

guitarfishbay said:

Drew_TNBD said:

gibsongretschfan said:

Drew_TNBD said:

I'll go on record.... I didn't really rate S-Gear when I tried it. Every single tone I got from it sounded like a small boutique blues tone, even the really high gain stuff and even when using 4x12 impulses. I couldn't get the sort of 5150/Diezel/Mesa saturation that I was looking for from any of the models.

If I was going to pick a software modeller that I'd compare Helix to, it would definitely be Amplitube and Guitar Rig. 

S-Gear doesn't have a high gain amp. The closer it comes is the Soldano-esque model. That's a bit like saying you didn't rate a 59 Les Paul because it doesn't Djent 

Yeah I didn't rate the 59 Les Paul I tried either. Just wasn't metulz enuf.

I couldn't play a 50s neck Les Paul the way I wanted...  neck way too huge.  Maybe if you just play thumb over blues licks in one position its very comfy.  Felt like i was straining my hand to play thumb round the back with bigger chord stretches.  Maybe I don't have big enough hands...

Actually I *think* my Orville has a 50's style neck.

octatonic

Drew_TNBD said:

guitarfishbay said:

Drew_TNBD said:

gibsongretschfan said:

Drew_TNBD said:

I'll go on record.... I didn't really rate S-Gear when I tried it. Every single tone I got from it sounded like a small boutique blues tone, even the really high gain stuff and even when using 4x12 impulses. I couldn't get the sort of 5150/Diezel/Mesa saturation that I was looking for from any of the models.

If I was going to pick a software modeller that I'd compare Helix to, it would definitely be Amplitube and Guitar Rig. 

S-Gear doesn't have a high gain amp. The closer it comes is the Soldano-esque model. That's a bit like saying you didn't rate a 59 Les Paul because it doesn't Djent 

Yeah I didn't rate the 59 Les Paul I tried either. Just wasn't metulz enuf.

I couldn't play a 50s neck Les Paul the way I wanted...  neck way too huge.  Maybe if you just play thumb over blues licks in one position its very comfy.  Felt like i was straining my hand to play thumb round the back with bigger chord stretches.  Maybe I don't have big enough hands...

Actually I *think* my Orville has a 50's style neck.

There is a degree of variation between 50's and a '59 neck.

guitarfishbay

Drew_TNBD said:

guitarfishbay said:

Drew_TNBD said:

gibsongretschfan said:

Drew_TNBD said:

I'll go on record.... I didn't really rate S-Gear when I tried it. Every single tone I got from it sounded like a small boutique blues tone, even the really high gain stuff and even when using 4x12 impulses. I couldn't get the sort of 5150/Diezel/Mesa saturation that I was looking for from any of the models.

If I was going to pick a software modeller that I'd compare Helix to, it would definitely be Amplitube and Guitar Rig. 

S-Gear doesn't have a high gain amp. The closer it comes is the Soldano-esque model. That's a bit like saying you didn't rate a 59 Les Paul because it doesn't Djent 

Yeah I didn't rate the 59 Les Paul I tried either. Just wasn't metulz enuf.

I couldn't play a 50s neck Les Paul the way I wanted...  neck way too huge.  Maybe if you just play thumb over blues licks in one position its very comfy.  Felt like i was straining my hand to play thumb round the back with bigger chord stretches.  Maybe I don't have big enough hands...

Actually I *think* my Orville has a 50's style neck.

You're taller and probably have bigger hands thane me though.  And we play different styles

guitarfishbay

I quite like the simple octave divider on guitar, for monophonic playing into distortion.  It has quite a cool sound

guitarfishbay

Ok I'm really enjoying this plugin for bass. 

I've decided it can't outright replace my Darkglass pedals, as the BK7U in there sounds different to mine, and I like mine a lot.  And my B3K...  But the L6 one sounds good too.

The simple pitch works pretty well for the way I use octavers on bass.  Again I doubt I'd sell my MXR BOD, which is a different sound entirely, but I like the L6 one too.

So that leaves me looking at my Tech 21 gear, which if sold would give me a good fund towards the plugin... I've got a VT Bass DI which I like for really clanky sounds but I don't use those much, and an RBI which I like for grit, but a lot of the time I prefer the DG grit instead...

Still got 10 days left on the trial which I intend to use fully, but I'm now focussing on this plugin for bass sounds.