Which AC30 to buy...?

JookyChap

I've had an old 60s or 70s AC30 head that is a complete wreck, stuck in a barn or garage for 20 years, and I love the sound of it played very loud when I get to play it and scare the cows, but it is horrible quiet. So useless to play at home.

So at home I've gone thru most of the low watt thingies and come  to the conclusion that my AC15, with a master, sounds better than any of them. Problem solved, or so it should be.

But loving the sound of the 15 as I do, it isn't a 30, so I'm thinking I should get an AC30 with a master volume for home use and an attenuator if that still proves too noisy loud.

But which one to go for - I've read that C1s are better than C2s, Handwired sounds cool, and CC1s (or was it CC2s) are to be avoided. I've read all the specs and ended-up snow blind as to be perfectly frank, I really don't know which bits matter. I just want one that sounds like my old one, but quieter.

The one-in-the-barn is going thru a home built 2 x 12" cab with Celestion blues in it, if that helps. I found an egg in it last time I vacuumed the feathers out too. Not sure if that helps nail the tone I am after.

I thank you for your wisdom to come

ecc83

Bit worried about you playing an old, beatup amp in a cowshed J.C!

I really, really hope it is on an RCB!

Dave.

JookyChap

To be fair it had it's first valve change since I've had it (and maybe ever if the guy I got it from in '89 was right) last year, and they totally checked it over and did whatever needed doing to go from bakelite plugs to these new fangled three pin jobbies...

Plus it is in a very dry place and in a flight case. And that chicken is a lock picker extraoridary.

57Deluxe

Oi! @JookyChap - lets see some pics!

Cirrus

I could probably go on all day here but I'll show mercy.

If low volume matter to you, don't get an ac30. Their magic doesn't happen until the power section is working hard enough that you're getting some compression, the speakers are interacting with the amp, and the top end is being smoothed a bit because of the strain on the power rail. That's the point they become glorious amps that interact with your playing. Below that volume they're kinda shit for anything other than sparkly cleans- turn the master down and the preamp gain becomes fizzy and flat. 

There are so many amps I would prefer for lower volume home playing - Marshalls, Mesas, Peaveys, Solid state amps, 15 watt practice amps...

Apart from that, I think all the different versions are good if you play to the strengths of the circuit.

The CC gets a bad rep due to poor standby switch implementation and poor stock speakers, but it's a solid amp that's constructed well and has a good birch ply cab. If you can solder a few component changes and replace speakers it's a great amp.

The C series has better speakers and on paper it's easier to get to the tubes, but in practice it's actually harder. It's also got a solid state rectifier, an MDF cab and from pictures I've seen doesn't look as high quality inside.

The HW series is the tits. Simple circuit, good construction and the cabs sound fantastic. The options such as half power and hot/ cool mode are gimmicky rubbish IMO, but treated as a no-frills ac30 it's great.

If your old Celestion Blues are in good condition and you really really want a new AC30, I'd get a HW head. But don't come crying to me when you realise you want to crank it all the time. And if only an AC30 (but quieter) will do, I'd suggest you look into power scaling as it'll likely be more satisfying at low volume than an attenuator. If it's attenuator or GTFO I found the Dr Z brake lite worked better than the hotplate but both changed the sound noticeably.

impmann

Echoing what @Cirrus says - AC30s don't really sound great at low volume. 

I'd go a bit further - if you like the sound of a 'real' AC30, modern ones can be a bit of a disappointment. To my ears, nothing sounds like a Dartford Road AC30 - but as you have found, you need to have the volume up a bit even to use them as a pedal platform (as I used to). 

It depends on what you want your AC30 to do - if it you want it to be a clean, but characterful basis for pedals, I'd suggest that plenty of small valve amps get into that ballpark... I'm really loving the Laney Lionheart L20H, it has a Vox-y element but arguably more useful for modern stuff, but I'd guess that the Ac15 gets you there too. I'd also check out the Night Train head - these can sound VERY good when dialled in.

ICBM

Just for once I completely disagree with impmann…

AC30s sound *fantastic* at low volume - one of the best clean sounds of any amp, much better than an AC15, other smaller Vox, Laney or anything else Vox-like short of high-end copies and derivatives of the real thing in my opinion. Not dirty, of course - purely clean at any lower volumes - but they have a richness and depth to them which nothing else quite matches, and they take pedals extremely well if you want dirt. OK not whisper quiet, but easily quiet enough to use in a normal house or at a small gig. (Possibly not in a flat with someone below.)

The CC series wasn't bad, either - although don't expect the 'good' driven sounds at low volume, as Cirrus said - not quite the same as the true AC30/6/TBX/etc, but quite good and with some useful extra features. The newer C series doesn't sound quite right to me though - somehow flatter and more generic-sounding. The new HW is great, the 'Heritage Handwired' (which isn't), isn't .

Old AC30s do vary drastically too - many have had a history of poor maintenance and bodged repairs over the years, and even if they haven't many are in need of serious overhauls. But if you get a good old one… there's nothing like it.

ThePrettyDamned

My old mooer really did sound like an ac30 but quieter. It was quite odd really, hit the top boost and it was very Brian may.

It was still pretty loud, though...

Kebabkid

An AC30, possibly better, in all but name.

http://thefretboard.co.uk/discussion/4509/fs-valvetech-hayseed-30-rare-revised-price-1100#latest

Any good to you?

impmann

ICBM said:

Just for once I completely disagree with impmann…

Just proves there is no right or wrong on this question then, mate. :-)

siraxeman

ThePrettyDamned said:

My old mooer really did sound like an ac30 but quieter. It was quite odd really, hit the top boost and it was very Brian may.

It was still pretty loud, though...

Even tho Brian May doesn't use the top boost channel! He's always normal channel and a treble booster - the idea he got from watching and talking to Rory G back in the very early 70's.

NervousJohn

Is there a reason why you can't use your vintage AC-30 with an attenuator at home? Or buy another vintage one, it won be much more than a handwired.

Like this one ( no association to me. )

http://bit.ly/MA59fP

JookyChap

This is all good chaps - thanks...

Normally I play quite clean anyway, don't use pedals very often just a bit of reverb and use the guitars volume for a bit of a boost and that funny tone knob thing if I feel jazzy.

So for home I'm not really looking for something that will wail just have the right tone, I guess. Just that bit of 'something'.

It's always that something isn't it?

On the AC15 the master gets me there happily, but isn't quite right tone-wise - I like it, but it is different. I'm never stretching that, but I like the tone and that is fine.

I tried the Night Trains and they were OK, but a bit fizzy and again not quite right, and I tried a couple of Laneys and felt the same with them.

Good point on the old 'un - I could bring it in from the cold, but tbh it is a nice get away every week or two to go into the middle of nowhere and have a blast on it. At volume it is awesome and daft though it probably seems, playing it quiet, even attenuated, would feel like I'm gelding it somehow. Plus I wouldn't ever get to play it flat out, which I can at the mo'

I'll do some picture next time I'm up there, but it looks a wreck just a browny clothed head with a few odd holes drilled in it. I'm not kidding myself it is worth 'owt - I bought a Peavey Deuce to gig for £100 in 1989 and the bloke gave me the 30 and cab as a backup for nowt...and I very nearly didn't bother taking it.

Think the usual 'go and play  some' advice is apparent here isn't it?

impmann

siraxeman said:

ThePrettyDamned said:

My old mooer really did sound like an ac30 but quieter. It was quite odd really, hit the top boost and it was very Brian may.

It was still pretty loud, though...

Even tho Brian May doesn't use the top boost channel! He's always normal channel and a treble booster - the idea he got from watching and talking to Rory G back in the very early 70's.

Quite! The TB channel plus a treble booster can be quite toppy!!

I always preferred the normal channel on the old amps. Perhaps thats why I found that I needed the volume beyond 'home' levels to get a good, harmonically rich, clean sound that could be effected from there. At home volumes it was rather woolly...

You're giving me GAS for a proper AC30 again... I just need to keep telling myself that I can't lift one any more... :-(

JookyChap

impmann said:

You're giving me GAS for a proper AC30 again... I just need to keep telling myself that I can't lift one any more... :-(

That's a good point - I'm not sure I could bring it home if I wanted too

siraxeman

I carry an AC30 and a Marshall 2x12 amp as well...either my TSL122 or my DSL50 combo (1923C 85th Anniversary Limited edition combo) to every gig...plus my pedal board and 2 guitars. C'mon you wusses!

impmann

If I can find it, I'll post an X ray of my lower back so you can see why I'm no wuss!! Just isn't physically possible due to the injury... :-(

JookyChap

I'm a wuss, King Wuss, I don't mind admitting

Cacofonix

I heard that the Hayseeds were good. I'd have gone for a cc2x if I'd got one, but I'm with ICBM on this. Bring it home. Use it clean and put an attenuator on it if you must blast it. No doubt a tech will clarify, but an ac15 speaker with 50% attenuation should give the same as 2 ac 15 speakers at no attenuation, so interactivity then will exist. You'll then get a decent speaker feedback loop/interaction.

If it's totally yucky, enjook a cab for it and branch into a new field of endeavour with a 2x12 or separate cab.

pics are required (though I don't need to see one of the egg).

siraxeman

Only probs with the CC2X is the blue speakers have the WRONG cone...and thus sound a lot more fizzy than with the correct Mueller cone. This was pointed out by a Queen trib guitarist and Brian May fan who compared them in this video...then when he posted it on the Vox forum there was a bit of a shit storm stirred up and Vox reacted and told them Chinese to get the correct cones in from the C2X models onwards.....

JookyChap

I never thought I'd see the day when I ask a question on here and don't get encouraged to buy something new