Scales to solos

steveb

How do you guys take scales and use them in solos/licks, without them sounding like scales!?!? As i have took time to commit the scales to memory, i just end up playing it and cant seem to get away from it!! I dont 
necessarily mean when writing a solo, i mean more when im jamming/improvising. 

aord43

How is this off topic?

I think the answer to the question is to figure out licks within the scale and then use them.  The trap is to just play up and down the scale so all your licks end up sounding similar.  It helps to learn other solos first to get inspiration, but stay aware of the scale that's in use.

CabbageCat

aord43 said:

How is this off topic?

Get this filth off to where it belongs.

Fretwired

Learn arpeggios ..

fretmeister

I try to imagine a different instrument playing when I'm jamming.

Like a sax or piano - anything that has a completely different attack and note length. I find myself imagining what a saxophonist would play and it's always different from what a guitarist would play.

steveb

Ha!! I do apologise!! Cheers guys!!!!

aord43

Another suggestion I have come across before is to try to echo the lyric/melody.  Add some variations and you will have something that fits.

viz

A good tune falls automatically within the relevant scale (plus some judicious chromaticism and passing notes), and the writing of effective melody isn't really a scale-driven thing. The main thing to overcome in being an improviser- or composer-player is to get it so that your fingers can play what your mind's ear can hear. 

That doesn't mean it's a bad thing to know the scale of the key or mode you're in, but then try not to think "ok now I must use these notes", just try and sing the melodies you want to hear in your head and get your fingers to replicate that. They will be in the 'correct' scale if they sound good!

smigeon

Yeah - play bits of the tune interspersed with bits of scales. Add some bits of arpeggio if you like. And rip off bits of other people's solos and sprinkle them in too. Whatever you do, the main thing is to keep at it.

Lestratcaster

I use chord tones, roots 3rds and 7ths. Then I will add 2nd's and 6th's depending on major/minor key. Helps you learn the fretboard too. And if learning solos I break it up into phrases.

bigjon

I use interval jumps, not too often, say every 4 or 5 notes of consecutive scale degrees stick a jump of eg a 3rd or a 5th in - those are my two favourites, and I often accompany them with a change of direction.

Danji

There's loads of different ways, you can figure out the vowel notes, Root, 3rd, 5th, and 7ths. Then consonant notes, 9th, 4th, 6th. Then do a countdown, I'll have a consonant, two vowels, and another consonant please.

You'll also have to bear in mind, when the chord changes, (even if it's in the same key), the note relationships will too. Also, the consonant notes can sound really good too. It depends on your ears and grasp of melody. 

Flink_Poyd

This video might help. 

DesVegas

This is a good place to start

http://www.guitartabs.cc/tabs/b/bon_jovi/living_on_a_prayer_solo_tab.html

steveb

Thanks!! Theres some great info here, much appreciated!!! Also, do you guys have go to licks that you pull out when soloing?? I always see other players soloing and i assume its all improvised on the spot!!!

Barney

Everybody seems to practice scales I've 2 maybe 3 octaves...while this is ok to see where te notes are it's not very good e.g. to be musical ...you can break out of it a bit with arpeggios or maybe just take one octave scale and mess with it for a while altering timings and note placement and make melodies ...a scale is a bit like the alphabet..before you can talk you need to know phrases..

viz

Barney said:

Everybody seems to practice scales I've 2 maybe 3 octaves...while this is ok to see where te notes are it's not very good e.g. to be musical ...you can break out of it a bit with arpeggios or maybe just take one octave scale and mess with it for a while altering timings and note placement and make melodies ...a scale is a bit like the alphabet..before you can talk you need to know phrases..

Yes, exactly, and your brain and your heart are FAR better at making up tunes than your fingers, so start at that end, rather than from the technique-end. Scales are for practising dexterity not for improvising melodies. 

aord43

steveb said:

Thanks!! Theres some great info here, much appreciated!!! Also, do you guys have go to licks that you pull out when soloing?? I always see other players soloing and i assume its all improvised on the spot!!!

The only soloing I do is my own noodling in the living room, but more and more I find I am using licks from other solos that I have (partially) learnt or tried to learn.
I used to think it was made up but it's becoming clear from many sources that if you have a range of licks you can put them together and instantly improvise that way.  Try learning one lick and playing only that lick over the entire 12 bars of a blues.  Then when you are familiar, do the same with another.  Then try putting them together in various ways.

Roland

viz said:

Barney said:

Everybody seems to practice scales  ...a scale is a bit like the alphabet..before you can talk you need to know phrases..

Yes, exactly, and your brain and your heart are FAR better at making up tunes than your fingers, so start at that end, rather than from the technique-end. Scales are for practising dexterity not for improvising melodies. 

The problem with scales is that you get what you practice, and end up with scalar solos. IMO it's better to use melody fragments and licks, and connect these with scale fragments and arpeggios. 

Jalapeno

Fretwired said:

Learn arpeggios ..

This.

bingefeller

Pat Metheny says that timing is a huge factor in what you play.  Even if you are playing the "wrong" notes, and you have good timing and it resolves, it will sound good.  That's why guys like Michael Brecker and Robben Ford sound so good when they do that outside stuff.