Do you think that maybe the US military...

Emp_Fab

...might have a plan to not obey any launch order from Ronald the Donald ?  You know...  just in case he goes "Fuck it, if I can't be King, then nobody lives" ?

notanon

Good question! How frightening could the answer be?

mike_l

DT couldn't request a launch without his generals stating the "enemy" had launched first (or were in the launch process).

stimpsonslostson

This is a very good in-depth podcast exploration of the issue:
http://www.radiolab.org/story/nukes/

darthed1981

They wouldn't need a plan, the US military would just remove him if they felt the need.  It would be a "coup" but a very small price to prevent global Armageddon.

Given they would not actually need to harm the President, they most likely would not need to engage the Secret Service, whose sole role is the protection of the President and therefore would be unlikely to just stand down if attacked.  They WOULD need the US Marine Corps on board, who ultimately protect the President as a military force.  I read a novel where someone needed to remove the President and they made a point of taking the CinC of the USMC, to order them to stand down.

On TV and in Films (obviously this hasn't happened in real life yet) they have a habit of using Section 4 of the 25th amendment to install the Vice President as President.  This would obviously require Pence to be in on it as well.  Certainly congress wouldn't be an issue, even his own side won't vote for him.

What would trigger them actually doing it?  Almost certainly either failure to respond to a major threat, i.e. a Russian invasion of the Baltic states, which is what people are really worried about with all the interference rumours, or a disproportionate response to a major threat, i.e. pre-emptive nuclear strike on NK..

If we had another Cuban missile crisis, the subtlety that resolved it peacefully would be beyond Trump, so something like that would be the likely trigger.

It wont happen in NK though.  The NK regime knows that a nuclear attack on Guam would lead to a Pyongjang sized fireball, and the end of their regime, so it won't happen.  A Conventional strike would lead to an overwhelming US response and give the US an excuse to use their stock of fuel air bombs to take out their precious buried nuclear facilities, they dont want that either.

HAL9000

DT would have trouble requesting a launch as the launch codes are all more than 140 characters long...

joeyowen

I'm sure I've read about a Russian guy who refused to launch a nuke after a false alarm that America had launched one during the cold war.

I might be wrong.  But if true, shows it can be done.

darthed1981

joeyowen said:

I'm sure I've read about a Russian guy who refused to launch a nuke after a false alarm that America had launched one during the cold war.

I might be wrong.  But if true, shows it can be done.

Yes, that one is true, forget his name.  He didn't refuse to as in refuse an order, the computer system told him that the US had launched a massive strike and he made the judgement call that it was a system error rather than the US President going insane and ending the world.

joeyowen

darthed1981 said:

joeyowen said:

I'm sure I've read about a Russian guy who refused to launch a nuke after a false alarm that America had launched one during the cold war.

I might be wrong.  But if true, shows it can be done.

Yes, that one is true, forget his name.  He didn't refuse to as in refuse an order, the computer system told him that the US had launched a massive strike and he made the judgement call that it was a system error rather than the US President going insane and ending the world.

Ah, not quite the same, but still shows sense can prevail. If I recall, he actually got in trouble for it ( again, I may be wrong). I really should be my research before posting sometimes.

TheBlueWolf

I'll find the linkage in a bit but I'm certain that the staff closest to Trump can overrule his order to fire if his authority as the Prez is in question. 

TheBlueWolf

TheBlueWolf said:

I'll find the linkage in a bit but I'm certain that the staff closest to Trump can overrule his order to fire if his authority as the Prez is in question. 

Not the article I was thinking of but anyway....

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2017/08/11/can-congress-stop-trump-from-launching-a-nuclear-attack-on-north-korea/

Emp_Fab

You're not wrong.  Stanislav Petrov is the chap..  https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanislav_Petrov

There is a film about the incident too...



However in the current context, there's a difference between a Soviet system falsely detecting a launch and an American Narcissist deciding he wants to launch a real one.

TheBlueWolf

@Emp_Fab yeah an orange narcissistic twunt gibbon is a problem all by itself....

Drew_TNBD

Left wing extremist.

Drew_TNBD

Our last album was themed around the question "what if petrov failed"

Funkfingers

darthed1981 said:

the US military would just remove [Trump] if they felt the need.  It would be a "coup" but a very small price to prevent global Armageddon.

In my opinion, the US military will not need to do this. The Republican party is already working on the problem.

TheBlueWolf

Drew_TNBD said:

Our last album was themed around the question "what if petrov failed"

Bunch of emo, corporate, sell out, jizz slurping, whorez!

darthed1981

Funkfingers said:

darthed1981 said:

the US military would just remove [Trump] if they felt the need.  It would be a "coup" but a very small price to prevent global Armageddon.

In my opinion, the US military will not need to do this. The Republican party is already working on the problem.

The only reason the US military would is as I stated.  If they wanted to remove presidents they just didn't like pretty much only Reagan would have lasted in recent years!

Freebird

TimmyO

Drew_TNBD said:

Our last album was themed around the question "what if petrov failed"

You've got the intellectual high ground but I'm guessing that 'Love In An Elevator' just nudged it on sales :-) 

Drew_TNBD

TimmyO said:

Drew_TNBD said:

Our last album was themed around the question "what if petrov failed"

You've got the intellectual high ground but I'm guessing that 'Love In An Elevator' just nudged it on sales :-) 

The album artwork was supposed to represent a dreamlike version of a post-nuclear world.



My brother in law designed it for us, with me smoking big fat cigars walking in circles behind him throwing ideas out!