Do truly good amps exist?

ICBM

57Deluxe said:

Blimey - if anybody got it 'right' - they'd have clean up yonks ago!

No. They have, and they didn't…

eg Rivera. Some of the best-designed, best-made and best-sounding amps I know of, but how many do you see being used?

The problem is that a lot of musicians don't know or care enough about build quality to make informed decisions, and also that even very poor amps don't have a 100% failure rate - or anything like it usually - so you will always get someone who will buy a cheap, badly-designed amp if they like the sound of it. Some will even say "I gigged one of those for twenty years with no trouble", and be telling the truth.

the_twin

Combination of heat, building down to a price and marketing demanding all manner of features. Plus the historic associations of various famous brands. Also the market is not large enough to support proper R&D or innovation. 

Three-ColourSunburst

Authentic valve sound? Responsive to dynamics? A reputation for reliability? Well made? Innovative? Good sounding at all volume levels? Portable? Loud enough to gig? Simple controls that focus on presenting its own particular tone to the best effect, rather than emulating every amp ever made?

Assuming you like its sound (its not a high-gain metal amp) how about a Roland Blues Cube Hot? I have one and love it, clean or over-driven.

Although these are sometimes compared to the Katana they really are a different kettle of fish, with a beech ply cabinet rather than particle board and mainly discreet analogue components to replicate the way a vale amp responds, rather than integrated circuits. The only thing digital is the reverb.

I have seen many comments to the effect that they are over-priced because they don't use tubes, and solid state amps should be cheap, but by the same logic any tube amp costing more than a Blues Junior is overpriced!

Gassage

I have to agree with the OP.

My 1958 Fender Deluxe had to have a cap replacement recently and Fender refused to honour it under warranty. Hopelessly unreliable. Should last for years.

I'll never buy Fender again.

Dontgiveupyourdayjob

Anyone got high hopes for Vox's "NuTube" concept that they've brought out with the new MV50 amps?

Supposedly a genuine tube, with all the proper responsiveness, but made a lot smaller and more efficient. An attempt to modify/improve on the old-school tech I guess, instead of just trying to replace it with digital wizardry which the industry has tried a thousand times before. 

They sound pretty darn pretty good in the demos I've heard, and the reviews have all been broadly positive, and that's with just the one valve in the pre-amp. In theory they should last a hell of a lot longer and be more reliable than a traditional valve design.

Anyone had a whirl on one yet?

mattdavis

I agree re new amps. I think they just try to do too much. Generally an amp with a million options is only really great at one thing. Never found any new multi channel amp where clean and dirty are both brilliant. Both can be good but not brilliant. 
I've always found simple single channel amps fantastic and generally reliable. Also if they do break they're simple to fix. Love my little Fender champ and my old jcm 800. 

ICBM

Three-ColourSunburst said:

I have seen many comments to the effect that they are over-priced because they don't use tubes, and solid state amps should be cheap, but by the same logic any tube amp costing more than a Blues Junior is overpriced!

Bad example since the Blues Junior is already badly overpriced . But I understand what you mean.

Actually, building a solid-state amp to the same quality as a good valve amp should cost almost exactly the same - really only the difference of the price of the output transformer and the valves (less the price of the transistors), since the rest of the construction should be about equivalent.

The problem is that solid-state is perceived as the poor relation, so if someone does build a solid-state amp that well, and prices it the same as a valve amp, then it doesn't sell.

DJH83004

Like IC I have had many different amps on the bench over the last 35+ years, and actually one amp that personally ticks all the boxes for me is the early range of Hiwatts produced by Dave Reeves, which had generously rated top quality Partridge transformers, combined with aircraft standard wiring looms, quality components (in their day) which made the amps reliable, totally serviceable and pretty bomb proof.
My pet hates on modern valve amps are surface mount technology and Chinese transformers (but the scrap mans loves them  ) 
     

ourmaninthenorth

Over a certain price point, the only problem worth considering is which one to buy. 

If you're concerned about serviceability, have your tech recommend an amp that makes their lives easier.

If you're concerned about finding the sound in your head, get yer wallet out and play the bugger until it blows up, it's what we do, then get said tech to fix it, it's what they do. 

There really is no mystery in this stuff, if you're prepared to do your own thinking, and your own listening. 

timmysoft

I think the best design of recent times is the Tiny Terror. For rock music it's a reliable and simple design. It's not perfect but the concept is great and personally I think they sound great too

ICBM

timmysoft said:

I think the best design of recent times is the Tiny Terror. For rock music it's a reliable and simple design. It's not perfect but the concept is great and personally I think they sound great too

They are certainly well-made and quite reliable - although like a lot of EL84 amps, are biased too hot so valve life isn't great - but if you want an Orange, the Rocker 30 is a *much* better amp.

I really don't like the sound of the Tiny Terror very much, I find them too middy and compressed.

Marktigere1

Gassage said:

I have to agree with the OP.

My 1958 Fender Deluxe had to have a cap replacement recently and Fender refused to honour it under warranty. Hopelessly unreliable. Should last for years.

I'll never buy Fender again.

I know how you feel.

I have a 1955 5W catalogue amp made by a company called Broadway.

The original resistors went Pete Tong around 4 years ago and I had to replace them myself as I couldn't find the manufacturer on the Tinternet.

Whilst the original Mullard 12ax7, EL84 and EL82's are still working, I find it poor service by the manufacturer and equally poor build quality.

When it stops in 50 years time, I won't be buying another even though its one of my favourite amps I've played through.

Beexter

I know the posts by @Gassage and @Marktigere1 are tongue in cheek but that's kind of my point - a lot of the early valve amps seem to have been built fairly well, with relatively simple circuits, following pretty solid engineering principles, making them easily serviceable and fairly robust. 

My understanding is that the quality and tolerances of modern electronic components (valves excepted)  has improved yet amp building methods and quality amongst the mainstream manufacturers hasn't improved to the same degree, with many design and build considerations being cost driven above all else and many of the big name manufacturers trading off of past glories.

It seems like it's the relatively small volume builders that are applying sensitive mods to the older circuits that have the answers. 

crunchman

Beexter said:

It seems like it's the relatively small volume builders that are producing sensitive mods to the older circuits that have the answers. 

This

Lazy J for the win

TheBigDipper

ICBM said:

57Deluxe said:

Blimey - if anybody got it 'right' - they'd have clean up yonks ago!

No. They have, and they didn't…

eg Rivera. Some of the best-designed, best-made and best-sounding amps I know of, but how many do you see being used?

The problem is that a lot of musicians don't know or care enough about build quality to make informed decisions, and also that even very poor amps don't have a 100% failure rate - or anything like it usually - so you will always get someone who will buy a cheap, badly-designed amp if they like the sound of it. Some will even say "I gigged one of those for twenty years with no trouble", and be telling the truth.

+1 for Rivera. I loved the clean channel on my Clubster 45 (not exactly the top of their range, but a great gigging amp) and didn't ever gel with the FET-fronted overdrive channel (to the point of only using it for a nice crunchy rhythm tone and pedals into the clean for everything else).

But... built like a tank and 100% reliable in the time I owned it. Never let me down and I never felt it might, either. 

professorben

Beexter said:

I know the posts by @Gassage and @Marktigere1 are tongue in cheek but that's kind of my point - a lot of the early valve amps seem to have been built fairly well, with relatively simple circuits, following pretty solid engineering principles, making them easily serviceable and fairly robust. 

My understanding is that the quality and tolerances of modern electronic components (valves excepted)  has improved yet amp building methods and quality amongst the mainstream manufacturers hasn't improved to the same degree, with many design and build considerations being cost driven above all else and many of the big name manufacturers trading off of past glories.

It seems like it's the relatively small volume builders that are applying sensitive mods to the older circuits that have the answers. 

Assuming you want to achieve the same old sounds as a guy from the late 50's. 
if an amp can't cause massive internal haemorrhaging of small mammals at 100 paces and or double as a commercial demolition device I'm not interested. 

Horses for courses.