More Country Licks! :D

Teyeplayer

missmisstreater said:

Teyeplayer said:

Have I missed a link to the book? Very interested in this dude.

http://www.fundamental-changes.com/books/country-guitar-books/

Top 3 books are all mine

Thanks for the interest!

 Cheers 100 licks purchased... it better be good!

Modellista

Danny1969 said:

Some nice licks but I gotta say, you need to be teaching in notes, not tab for country. If you feel you get more hits with the tab approach then at least tell them the note as well as the fret number. 

That aside nice work 

This makes no sense to me, particularly with open string work which relies on using (and teaching) exact fingerings. What's the thinking behind what you've said there? 

PS the vids are great. 

DLM

@modellista I'd imagine @Danny1969 is thinking that teaching in "notes" will make transposing easier between keys for working with different vocalists with diverse ranges. That's also part of why the Nashville number system is used in country music. If you wanna work, you've gotta be able to play any tune in basically any key right off the bat.  

Modellista

DLM said:

@modellista I'd imagine @Danny1969 is thinking that teaching in "notes" will make transposing easier between keys for working with different vocalists with diverse ranges. That's also part of why the Nashville number system is used in country music. If you wanna work, you've gotta be able to play any tune in basically any key right off the bat.  

Thanks for the reply @DLM. That makes sense in principle for any genre when accompanying a singer. But country specifically relies on open strings more than any other genre I can think of both for chord voicings and licks. There's no way of playing these licks (I've only played the first one so forgive me if the others don't use open strings) in a different key except by use of a capo, in which case the original tab is still perfectly valid. 

Modellista

And further to that, the Nashville number system is a further step in the opposite direction away from notes than tab is. The idea being, as you correctly say, to make songs key-agnostic. How introducing note names can make songs easier to transpose I cannot fathom. 

DLM

@modellista I've tagged Danny in, so we'll see what he meant, I was just taking a guess. FWIW, I quite agree about the open-string licks. I guess country players just pull ones that are in the key they happen to be doing the tune in out of their bags as appropriate.

missmisstreater

DLM said:

@modellista I'd imagine @Danny1969 is thinking that teaching in "notes" will make transposing easier between keys for working with different vocalists with diverse ranges. That's also part of why the Nashville number system is used in country music. If you wanna work, you've gotta be able to play any tune in basically any key right off the bat.  

But based on that everything should be taught in intervals, not notes - that's essentially what the Nashville numbers system is.

Teaching in notes is great for some people, but for transposing? No chance. If I say, here's a lick G, B, D, E, F, C#, E, G, A, Bb, B.... now play that in Bb.... good luck!

A tab player will do it faster as they'll just move it up 3 frets. An intervals player will have been told R, 3, 5, 6, b7, #11, 6, R, 2, b3, 3 - again, it's instantly transposable.

Further to that, if you only think in notes and I say "play Eb" you'll rightfully say "where?" This is a HUGE part of country music - you want to learn all those rapid open string licks and do note names? What an epic waste of time.

If I say "play the 4th fret B" you don't need to ask anything else. You know that's an Eb.

Finally... what about people who play in other tunings? When I'm teaching Jerry Reed stuff and he's tuned D G C G Bb E. Or Joey Landreth's hybrid open C tuning. 

Cool, you think note names so any time I say "play G then E" and you have to take time to translate that to tuning you're unfamiliar with. I'm glad you're doing things the "right way"... I'm too busy over here playing to worry about it.

Modellista

Poor @DLM, he seems to be taking the flak for @Danny1969 's opinion!

Having said that I agree wholeheartedly with @missmisstreater 's points above.  Introducing note names is wildly inappropriate for country, and, for that matter, the guitar in general.  You could be a total beast of a player and never concern yourself with the name of any note.

missmisstreater

modellista said:

Poor @DLM, he seems to be taking the flak for @Danny1969 's opinion!

Having said that I agree wholeheartedly with @missmisstreater 's points above.  Introducing note names is wildly inappropriate for country, and, for that matter, the guitar in general.  You could be a total beast of a player and never concern yourself with the name of any note.

haha @DLM knows I love him!

Danny1969

If you just teach people the fret numbers and not the  notes then they don't have any idea of the relationship between the notes and how they relate to the underpinning chords. Think about why country guitar sounds like country ? many of the notes played are very similar to what  a rock  a pop \ player might play but it's the notes you start on  land on that give it it's flavour and you need to be able to do that in whatever key your working in ..... Yes you can transpose things by sliding up and down but believe me your better off in the long run having a good basic working knowledge of music and that means knowing where all the notes are on a guitar and how they relate to one another. 

In country we use as many open strings as possible, this is the trick that allows us to move smoothly from position to position. Lets say we are descending down the neck in the key of Dm, Is it not better to be aware of what notes I'm playing as I'm playing them and to know what notes can be substituted for open strings instantly ?

As @DLM rightly said country music is often written as chart numbers. If I'm given a chart I'm expected to be able to play it in any key and I would expect anyone else to as well ... it's not rocket science it's basic musical nuts and bolts. Yeah some keys like Bb and F aren't so great on the guitar for country so you use your knowledge of music to get around that ..... for example on a session in F I would normally tune down a half step and play the session in F# 

@modellista I don't believe you can be a beast of a player without having a grounding in basic music theory. I used to think that you could before I started working professionally with other people and noticed they could change key at the drop of a hat, harmonise lead lines without hitting a load of duff notes etc. You can be a fast player, an exciting player and you can be a original as a player but the best people to work with generally have a better understanding of music theory than the average Youtube teacher is teaching today's generation of guitarist. 

I spose I just don't understand why people can't say something like  

"Right guys this licks in G so we start by pulling off the G to the open E, that's 3rd fret E string to open E string" etc I mean at least they know what key they are in and you have taught them where at least one G note is 

DLM

missmisstreater said:

If I say "play the 4th fret B" you don't need to ask anything else. You know that's an Eb.

@missmisstreater No, I wouldn't ask anything else, you're right. I'd play the B on the 4th fret of the G string. ;-)

FWIW, I'm not dogmatic about any of this stuff. The more tools one has to get any job done, the better prepared one is for every eventuality. And the easier it's gonna go. Which is why a sweaty metalhead like me is in a country thread, posting about Nashville numbers. \m/

Modellista

Danny1969 said:

If you just teach people the fret numbers and not the  notes then they don't have any idea of the relationship between the notes and how they relate to the underpinning chords. Think about why country guitar sounds like country ? many of the notes played are very similar to what  a rock  a pop \ player might play but it's the notes you start on  land on that give it it's flavour and you need to be able to do that in whatever key your working in ..... Yes you can transpose things by sliding up and down but believe me your better off in the long run having a good basic working knowledge of music and that means knowing where all the notes are on a guitar and how they relate to one another. 

In country we use as many open strings as possible, this is the trick that allows us to move smoothly from position to position. Lets say we are descending down the neck in the key of Dm, Is it not better to be aware of what notes I'm playing as I'm playing them and to know what notes can be substituted for open strings instantly ?

As @DLM rightly said country music is often written as chart numbers. If I'm given a chart I'm expected to be able to play it in any key and I would expect anyone else to as well ... it's not rocket science it's basic musical nuts and bolts. Yeah some keys like Bb and F aren't so great on the guitar for country so you use your knowledge of music to get around that ..... for example on a session in F I would normally tune down a half step and play the session in F# 

@modellista I don't believe you can be a beast of a player without having a grounding in basic music theory. I used to think that you could before I started working professionally with other people and noticed they could change key at the drop of a hat, harmonise lead lines without hitting a load of duff notes etc. You can be a fast player, an exciting player and you can be a original as a player but the best people to work with generally have a better understanding of music theory than the average Youtube teacher is teaching today's generation of guitarist. 

I spose I just don't understand why people can't say something like  

"Right guys this licks in G so we start by pulling off the G to the open E, that's 3rd fret E string to open E string" etc I mean at least they know what key they are in and you have taught them where at least one G note is 

Sorry Danny, but a lot of what you're saying here simply doesn't make sense. 

If you just teach people the fret numbers and not the  notes then they don't have any idea of the relationship between the notes

How can this be true? If you learn via tab, say an 8th fret to a 5th fret pull-off, it's obvious even to a total beginner that the notes are three semitones apart.  Just going by note names is nowhere near as obvious.  To transpose that you just move it up and down the neck - note names are completely irrelevant!

Think about why country guitar sounds like country ? many of the notes played are very similar to what  a rock  a pop \ player might play but it's the notes you start on  land on that give it it's flavour and you need to be able to do that in whatever key your working in

You might know what you mean by this but it's gibberish to me, or at least so self-evident to be useless.

As @DLM rightly said country music is often written as chart numbers. If I'm given a chart I'm expected to be able to play it in any key and I would expect anyone else to as well

You're contradicting yourself here by saying it's actually easier not to have note names for ease of transposition, something we already decided a long way up the thread.  And clearly if you're given a number chart you can either play it in any key or not at all.

And I think we all agree it's not rocket science, if you're attempting these fairly tricky country licks I think it's fair to say none of us are beginners here.

"Right guys this licks in G so we start by pulling off the G to the open E, that's 3rd fret E string to open E string" 

Having re-watched the first video that is exactly what Levi is doing, he mentions note names quite frequently.

The essential point stands, the guitar is easy to transpose in (and I assume all here present can do so easily) until you start introducing open string licks or chords, in which case you can't transpose easily without retuning or using a capo.

I apologise if I sound argumentative, but for anyone reading this thread I thinks it's important to have this discussion.

Danny1969

modellista said:

Sorry Danny, but a lot of what you're saying here simply doesn't make sense. 

If you just teach people the fret numbers and not the  notes then they don't have any idea of the relationship between the notes

How can this be true? If you learn via tab, say an 8th fret to a 5th fret pull-off, it's obvious even to a total beginner that the notes are three semitones apart.  Just going by note names is nowhere near as obvious.  To transpose that you just move it up and down the neck - note names are completely irrelevant!

I mean the relationship in terms of third  \ fifth etc ...... 

Think about why country guitar sounds like country ? many of the notes played are very similar to what  a rock  a pop \ player might play but it's the notes you start on  land on that give it it's flavour and you need to be able to do that in whatever key your working in

You might know what you mean by this but it's gibberish to me, or at least so self-evident to be useless.

That's kinda my point and it goes back to knowing the relationship of notes in terms of intervals to the tonic key note, as an example a country guitarist might often target a  major third to land on a opposed to a minor one a blues or rock player might target ... 

As @DLM rightly said country music is often written as chart numbers. If I'm given a chart I'm expected to be able to play it in any key and I would expect anyone else to as well

You're contradicting yourself here by saying it's actually easier not to have note names for ease of transposition, something we already decided a long way up the thread.  And clearly if you're given a number chart you can either play it in any key or not at all.

No, again it's all about intervals ..... yes for fretted notes, bar chords you could slide up or down a position but it's better to simply know what the fourth chord is in the key of G major for example without having to visualise the frets on a fretboard ..... knowing music in terms of intervals also means you can play the same songs on the piano etc. 

And I think we all agree it's not rocket science, if you're attempting these fairly tricky country licks I think it's fair to say none of us are beginners here. 

"Right guys this licks in G so we start by pulling off the G to the open E, that's 3rd fret E string to open E string" 

Having re-watched the first video that is exactly what Levi is doing, he mentions note names quite frequently.

The essential point stands, the guitar is easy to transpose in (and I assume all here present can do so easily) until you start introducing open string licks or chords, in which case you can't transpose easily without retuning or using a capo.

I apologise if I sound argumentative, but for anyone reading this thread I thinks it's important to have this discussion.

No need to apologise your points are as valid as mine. 

missmisstreater

Danny1969 said:

No need to apologise your points are as valid as mine. 

Holy shit... have I just witnessed people having a reasonable argument on the internet?!!? And on a GUITAR forum?!

Medals all round!!!

missmisstreater

Yo @adamm82 lots of country licks videos here - and many more on my channel (all covertly promoting my 3 books! )