Helix in front of Amp - Clean Sound Problem, do I need an AX8? - SOLVED! :)

peteri

Righto

Really loving the Helix, a lot - but have one gripe I can't get over

Taking a very simple preset - just reverb and going guitar-Helix-amp.

If I compare that to guitar-g2-amp, there's definitely something missing. The G2 signal has more fullness, more pick on the strings to it, just sounds more like the guitar.

Not that the Helix sounds bad, but it's taking something (conversion maybe?)

I really enjoy the Helix, and think the drive sounds in particular are killer - but the comparison is stopping me going fully over to it.

Anyone else noticed this? I've tried playing with EQ, input impedance etc but no luck

Is it any different with the AX8? Would rather not spend the money, but the funds would be there if need be

Thanks

Pete

Sporky

Are the output levels exactly the same? It only takes a teeny drop in volume for everything to sound worse.

peteri

Good point, and I'll re-check that. But it feels like more the frequency content - could of course be levels changing how the amp responds.

They're not massively different for sure

Sporky

It does make a surprising difference to your perception of the sound - it's a classic way to win a shootout - make sure you're about 0.2dB louder than the competition.

I'm not saying there isn't or can't be a difference, but it's well worth making sure it's not just level messing with your brain.

Wazmeister

I might agree here actually....

There are some GREAT buffers in the G2, and I still think that analogue pedals sound/feel better.

But, you do need to work on unity/volume adjustments for the Helix

Jonathanthomas83

When I was doing my comparisons early on with the Fractal, I found stuff wasn't identical and I preferred some sounds I had with my old setup, but in the end decided that the gains from such a neat solution far outweighed the 0.9% that was missing from the tone.

I hope that doesn't come across as cynical, it's not meant to. Nor am I saying that the Fractal tone is inferior, just different. Just saying that it's worth deciding if the difference you're hearing is worth the sending the Helix back and returning to your old setup or indeed moving to an AX8 (with which I guarantee you'll hear differences in other ways). Good luck!

fretmeister

Reverb in front of an amp sucks balls.

Always. No exceptions. Ever.

peteri

fretmeister said:

Reverb in front of an amp sucks balls.

Always. No exceptions. Ever.

Thanks for that helpful and completely untrue comment. 

peteri

Wazmeister said:

I might agree here actually....

There are some GREAT buffers in the G2, and I still think that analogue pedals sound/feel better.

But, you do need to work on unity/volume adjustments for the Helix

Thanks - will give it a go. 

John_A

fretmeister said:

Reverb in front of an amp sucks balls.

Always. No exceptions. Ever.

Tell that to Dick Dale

fretmeister

John_A said:

fretmeister said:

Reverb in front of an amp sucks balls.

Always. No exceptions. Ever.

Tell that to Dick Dale

I would!

But he appears to be slightly unhinged. So maybe an email.

Vaiai

I think an FX8 may be better as it's designed to be unity gain and it's just the FX from an Axe - I really liked mine before I got the Helix. Depends if you want to model a clean or if your are still using the amp (which it sounds like you are if you are in the front!)

Wazmeister

Vaiai said:

I think an FX8 may be better as it's designed to be unity gain and it's just the FX from an Axe - I really liked mine before I got the Helix. Depends if you want to model a clean or if your are still using the amp (which it sounds like you are if you are in the front!)

True dat

welshboyo

Helix can be configured to Unity gain by unassigning the Volume knob from the 1/4 outs (mine is set to control the Dig Out)

stratman3142

fretmeister said:

Reverb in front of an amp sucks balls.

Always. No exceptions. Ever.

Seems OK to me in front of my clean amp for live use.

Drew_TNBD

fretmeister said:

Reverb in front of an amp sucks balls.

Always. No exceptions. Ever.

Dems fighting werds.

Drew_TNBD

welshboyo said:

Helix can be configured to Unity gain by unassigning the Volume knob from the 1/4 outs (mine is set to control the Dig Out)

Yes do this. If the volume knob is in the signal path going to the real amp, you'll be attenuating the tone going to the amp.

peteri

welshboyo said:

Helix can be configured to Unity gain by unassigning the Volume knob from the 1/4 outs (mine is set to control the Dig Out)

Ah - I've done that already.

You can still apply gain in the preset clearly, so I don't think it's unity - more not messed with more than necessary

Drew_TNBD

peteri said:

welshboyo said:

Helix can be configured to Unity gain by unassigning the Volume knob from the 1/4 outs (mine is set to control the Dig Out)

Ah - I've done that already.

You can still apply gain in the preset clearly, so I don't think it's unity - more not messed with more than necessary

Nah if you've done that and everything in the patch is set to 0.0dB then you're unity gain pretty much.

Can't say I've noticed any massive tonal differences with my amps. I've used the Helix in 4-cable-method with my 5150III-50watt, Orange Rockerverb MKIII, and Diezel D-Moll, and the amps all sound fantastic with the Helix. The only thing I need to do is use an Orchid Electronics transformer box to break up the ground loops.

I also notice that the Helix is FAAAAAAARRRRRRRR less noisy than my single stomps - which are all high quality.

welshboyo

Drew_TNBD said:

peteri said:

welshboyo said:

Helix can be configured to Unity gain by unassigning the Volume knob from the 1/4 outs (mine is set to control the Dig Out)

Ah - I've done that already.

You can still apply gain in the preset clearly, so I don't think it's unity - more not messed with more than necessary

Nah if you've done that and everything in the patch is set to 0.0dB then you're unity gain pretty much.

Can't say I've noticed any massive tonal differences with my amps. I've used the Helix in 4-cable-method with my 5150III-50watt, Orange Rockerverb MKIII, and Diezel D-Moll, and the amps all sound fantastic with the Helix. The only thing I need to do is use an Orchid Electronics transformer box to break up the ground loops.

I also notice that the Helix is FAAAAAAARRRRRRRR less noisy than my single stomps - which are all high quality.

much the same here, no massive tonal differences in 4CM in either my Mesa, Bogner or borrowed amps (Blackstar mainly)

But there again I'd never run Reverb front end....

professorben

peteri said:

fretmeister said:

Reverb in front of an amp sucks balls.

Always. No exceptions. Ever.

Thanks for that helpful and completely true comment. 

Ftfy