Orange or Mesa 4x12

Lestratcaster

I love the sound from both these cabs, and I would like to upgrade my Marshall 4x12 that I put 2 x V30's in coupled with the stock G12T-75's. Though it sounds better and there's more cut, the lightness of Marshall cabs may play a part in why its not quite got the "chunk" (technical term for today kids) said Orange PPC412's and Rectifier 4x12's have. They're much heavier to carry so it shows the quality of the material.

So the next step is to decide which one to get, both have V30's which is the best speaker for my 6505+ head. Also I never really understand the difference between the Standard and Traditional Mesa 4x12's, I think the speaker sizes are different? But how does it differ if it was a "Stiletto" as they're called vs the Oversized?

Am I paying for the name with a Mesa cos they're almost £1500 brand new. Orange 4x12's are a bit more modest at around £700 but the other guitarist has one and it might be good to get something different.

Thoughts?

Moltisanti

i think the price of Mesa stuff in the UK makes it a no brainer. The Orange cabs have a really good reputation for heavy music, that's what i'd go for

ICBM

Buy the Orange if it's a choice between those two. You can get them in black if you don't want it to look like the other guy's cab. The Mesa is a good cab, but… £1500 for a 4x12"? You have to be kidding. Yes, you're paying for the name and the Mesa policy of ripping off overseas customers.

Or buy a second hand Mesa for around £500.

Or if you want something different, get a Harley Benton G412S Vintage for £366.51 brand new and laugh all the way to the bank.

https://www.thomann.de/gb/harley_benton_g412s_vintage.htm

rico

Surely Zilla is the choice?

timmysoft

The Mesa recto cabs shit on the orange from a great height. Better speakers, better design, they're just a lot better. 

Aidanspaghetti

Go for a vintage Hiwatt if you can find one. Awesome.

Maynehead

It's not ALL name with the Mesa... They have make in UK V30s which sound less fizzy and brittle compared to the Chinese ones in the Orange.

I think this vid demonstrates the difference well:

guitarfishbay

The Mesa V30 speakers are different to the ones in the Orange cabinet.  I think they sound better for heavy music personally, but both will sound good.  I find the Mesa speakers sound crunchier and a bit more scooped.  The normal vintage 30s sound a bit more fizzy to me

Personally I have a preference for the Mesa speakers, and also the cabinets.  I've got 2 of the Recto 2x12s, and I've got a quad of the Mesa V30s in an EVH cabinet, which is roughly Stiletto sized.  I bought it all used over time... I think new Mesa prices are crazy in this country.  But I also think for a modern heavy sound, Mesa cabs are the standard sound.

The Rectifier cabs are bigger than the Stiletto cabs.  I've tried both in 2x12 and 4x12 sizes, and my favourites are the Recto for 2x12 and Stiletto for 4x12, unfortunately I couldn't find a Stiletto 4x12 cab hence my EVH 4x12 with Mesa speakers.  The singer in my band uses the Stiletto 2x12, the smaller size is easier for him.  

The Recto 4x12 is taller than a regular cab (stiletto is roughly Marshall sized) and this does voice the whole cabinet very differently.  It both goes deeper in the bass and higher in the treble.  It has a characteristic hard edge to the treble which you'll either love or find grating.  The low end will be deep, but personally I find the standard sized cabinets more punchy for palm mutes, at the expense of some clarity.

For Rectifier vs Stiletto 4x12s this video is a good representation of the differences IMO



For Mesa vs regular Vintage 30s I think this is pretty representative



Personally I can't imagine a 6505 player being disappointed with a Rectifier 4x12, but I also know one time taking mine up a couple of flights of stairs on my own was enough for me, they're bloody big and heavy.

I think the reason the Mesa and Orange cabs are so chunky is they're comparatively stiffer than a typical Marshall cabinet, and stiff is generally what you want for tighter and punchier sounds.

Dopesick

If you're thinking about getting an Orange 4x12, you may perhaps want to reconsider and go for a Matamp 4x12? They're roughly the same price, but with the Matamp you can choose what speakers you want.

Although saying that I used an Orange cab the other week when we played with Morass Of Molasses and the sound was just absolutely exceptional. Cut through like a knife and thick as hell. I haven't tried a Mesa 4x12 yet but one day...one day...

professorben

To add an awkward option what about the Marshall MF400? Stunning oversized cab and the Gk-100 speakers are absolutely ideal for rock and high gain. 

Lestratcaster

Lugging heavy ass cabs up and down stairs are no fun I can relate to that but the band I'm currently playing with have a van so transporting isn't an issue plus theres normally 5 to 6 of us at a time loading stuff out.

you just know from the weight of those cabs they're going to sound good. On a recent tour I played my 6505+ through a Mesa 4x12 (kindly lent by one of the other bands) and it sounded amazing. It also sounds good through an Orange but as someone mentioned a little bit fizzy and unfocused.

Lestratcaster

rico said:

Surely Zilla is the choice?

I've looked on their website and it looks good but I'm not sure on what difference to tolex/grill choices would be, if I can get it to be a merger of the Mesa/Orange (or "Mesange" haha) maybe that'd be an option.

Lestratcaster

I went for the Orange in the end, got it from with GAK who were kind enough to give me a special price. It turned up yesterday:



Its heavy as fuck to carry but I noticed a big difference from my Marshall cab. The low end is a lot more controlled and less farty, the mids are warmer and the top end a bit more rich. My 6505+ loves them V30's! 

Couldn't turn it up to gig volume in the house but I already noticed its a much better sounding cab. Also I used to make the mistake of turning the resonance knob up far too high and that contributed to a very flubby tone. I like my chugs tight and bright, so around 4/5 suits better.

As its not on wheels it won't move around as much so more bass resonance. Can't wait to crank it up and give it some balls!

guitarfishbay

Congrats, looks good.

If you're playing heavy music you'll get a tighter sound if you raise it off the floor.

I know Oranges are designed specifically to couple with the floor, but personally I think amps sound better when they're off the floor a little - either with casters or on a caster board.  Especially big high gain amps with a lot of low end.

Lestratcaster

Or I can just turn the bass and resonance down lol. 

We're in drop b so its pretty low endy as it is, but some of the newer stuff we're writing is more rock orientated, a bit like this:



These guys use JCM800/900s in drop c but I like the crunchy chunky guitar tone.

guitarfishbay

Dropping the Resonance isn't the same thing, because if the cab is physically resonating into the floor the floor is impacting the tone.

Yeah I'm in drop B too, it's a massive pain in the arse, I've found EMG 81s help a lot for controlling sub bass on palm mutes.  Actually I use a pair of 2x12s because they're tighter and crunchier than a 4x12.  The way I play needs me to have less difference between note and chugs though, I love 4x12s and the kick you get out of palm muting out of them but the way I play guitar suits 2x12s better.

I like Lower Than Atlantis, that's my favourite track off the album.

Lestratcaster

I like how it sounds anyway, and I now keep the resonance around 5.

I think as I turn up the volume on the amp it compresses it slightly and you start to feel the power of the tubes really working.

I only picked that cos its similar to the kind stuff we're writing, riffy/chordy type songs as opposed to shredding and breakdowns, still love my breakdowns and chugs though!

guitarfishbay

Well it's a great sounding setup.

Yeah my band is closer to a rock band than a metal band, we're in that sort of middle ground of heavy modern melodic stuff, I guess closest thing would be the first Young Guns album (All of Our Kings Are Dead), and all my bandmates love early Paramore but we've got a male singer so hence drop B.

Truth be told I hate practising to get good enough to shred, it's just no fun and unless it's a good solo, just random shredding is pretty dated sounding now.  I prefer writing songs and playing riffs.  

Lestratcaster

Yeah, a whole better than my previous one which was Marshall stuff. Took me a while to upgrade but I think I have the missing piece in the jigsaw,the cab was definitely the weak link.

Ah nice, might have to check out your band, I like Young Guns (their older stuff) and I've seen them play live. I think they used Blackstar before not sure what they use now.

My role mainly is to play the chords and chug it up and I'm guilty of doing a few squealies in the set haha. Obviously playing with a loud drummer I need something to compete.

guitarfishbay

Cool.  I'll just PM you instead of derailing your thread any more lol

professorben

Shred rules.