The Helix VS Fractal FX8 Thread

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Drew_TNBDDrew_TNBD Frets: 22445

So this'll be a thing over the next few weeks. I'm comparing my new FX8 which I picked up from @Heartfeltdawn the other night, and my full fat Helix. 

Initial observations:


- FX8 is taller than the Helix and doesn't have as steep a slope as the Helix. So whilst it's not completely unusable in terms of stomping, the Helix is more comfortable.

- The switches feel about the same, very good on both units.

- Labelling on the back of the FX8 is labelled specifically for 4-cable-method with a real amp. This is really useful because when you look at it at a glance, it's very easy to see where cables are going. Helix isn't labelled so you have to remember explicitly.

- FX8 tuner is significantly smoother to use than the Helix.

- FX8 can put each individual effect in parallel, but you don't get a specific parallel chain. So let's say you want a delay going into a compressor in parallel with your dry guitar going into a reverb, you can't really do it.

- Navigation on the Helix is LEEEEAAAAGGGUUEEEESSSSSSS better than the FX8. Without reading the manual I could add an effect into the Helix signal chain within 30 seconds. 3 minutes in and with the FX8 I had to dig out the manual because I couldn't figure out how to add an effect. They have a 'list' view on the hardware, not a 'signal chain' view.

- This is where I get into the land of subjectivity... because at first the FX8 reverbs absolutely crushed the Helix ones... but then I put a Helix reverb in a parallel chain, and put an EQ in front of it and set the reverb to 100% wet... so basically had a dry through going to the amp, and then an EQ'd reverb. Doing that, you can get incredibly close to the FX8 reverb. The only thing that lacks a little is the decay of the reverbs are harder to dial in on the Helix than the FX8.

- So far I haven't really found the Adriatic Delay inside of the FX8. Some very good delay sounds, but that Adriatic is special.

- The Helix is actually quieter than the FX8 in terms of noise-floor. This surprised me, but it is what it is!

- There are some areas where the FX8 just wins outright though. Pitch and synth sounds, modulation has more scope, and delays and reverbs are a bit more detailed sounding off the bat and you can push them quite far.

- Helix sounds more "characterful" out of the box. Like the difference between Sonic Youth reverb tones and Riverside/Pink Floyd/Porcupine Tree reverbs.

- Scribble strips on the Helix are amazing. Being able to change the names of effects, just glance down at your feet and see all your snapshots very easily... less need to remember where you are in the heat of the moment.

- With the FX8 I can't have delay 1, delay 2, reverb 1, reverb 2, multi-delay, and megatap delay all in one patch as I run out of DSP. Which I'm not 100% sure I need to, but it was something I wanted to try.

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Comments

  • CabicularCabicular Frets: 2214
    I had an FX8 for a while as well
    its a perfectly good unit but it was giving me a headache with the pages of parameters 
    I though the drives were a bit stiff as well and didn't like the limitations of how many types of effects
    I agree about the pitch and synth stuff and the envelope filters are a lot of fun
    having said that if I could get all that from the TC G-System for 1/3 of the price (albeit double the weight)
    Overall it's pretty good and if I wanted FX only and didn't fiddle about too much then it would be great
    Couldn't live with those drives though

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  • octatonicoctatonic Frets: 33725
    edited August 2017
    Drew_TNBD said:

    - With the FX8 I can't have delay 1, delay 2, reverb 1, reverb 2, multi-delay, and megatap delay all in one patch as I run out of DSP. Which I'm not 100% sure I need to, but it was something I wanted to try.

    Have you turned down the quality on the reverb?
    By default it is maximum which is unnecessary IMO.
    I think mine is set to 3 and it sounds great.

    Are you using X/Y?
    With Delay 1 you can have two distinctly different types to switch between.
    My default patch has Delay 1, MultiDelay, Pitch, Reverb, Drive, Was & Volume and I don't come near to running out of DSP.
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  • Drew_TNBD said:

    - Labelling on the back of the FX8 is labelled specifically for 4-cable-method with a real amp. This is really useful because when you look at it at a glance, it's very easy to see where cables are going. Helix isn't labelled so you have to remember explicitly.

    Could you use coloured electrical tape so you could tell more easily?  I generally put a piece on the corner, so there's a bit visible from the top and a bit from the back, in an L shape around the edge... if that makes sense.

    Green for in Red for out etc whatever colours make sense to you.  
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  • thomasw88thomasw88 Frets: 2316
    I had the FX8 for a few months.  Loved it in the house got all the sounds perfect. However, in a live situation I was never happy with it.  Was constantly tweaking it in a band situation.

    I've gone back to pedals and whilst tempted by the helix LT not bit yet..
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  • Cabicular said:
    I had an FX8 for a while as well
    its a perfectly good unit but it was giving me a headache with the pages of parameters 
    I though the drives were a bit stiff as well and didn't like the limitations of how many types of effects
    I agree about the pitch and synth stuff and the envelope filters are a lot of fun
    having said that if I could get all that from the TC G-System for 1/3 of the price (albeit double the weight)
    Overall it's pretty good and if I wanted FX only and didn't fiddle about too much then it would be great
    Couldn't live with those drives though


    When did you have one?

    There was a significant update to the drives at some point... I know I know everyone with a digital unit rolls out this phrase... but no really.  I used to use my real SD1 at home sometimes because the model was a bit muddy, though it worked ok if you used the EQ to reduce the bass a little.  After the update I compared again and found them so close that I couldn't be bothered with the extra cabling anymore.

    I found the muff model to sound better than any real muff I've owned, though I only really use that sound on bass now

    If anything I find the analogue pitch model to be too glitchy for tracking.  I prefer my MXR BOD.
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  • Agree with the above. All the drives I've tried on the Fractal sound great...however, I do wonder how well a digital drive would sound into an analog amp setup. They sound fantastic into the digitally emulated amps in the Fractal because it's an all digital domain. But the Timmy sounds like a Timmy to me, as does the Muff and the TS. They're all great and better than my old pedals because they're infinitely more tweakable.

    Drew, will be following this thread with interest. How did your big preset translate?
    Read my guitar/gear blog at medium.com/redchairriffs

    View my feedback at www.thefretboard.co.uk/discussion/comment/1201922
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  • Drew_TNBDDrew_TNBD Frets: 22445
    I'm not a massive drive pedal guy, but I will give them a fair go and see how the FX8 and Helix stacks up. Will probably make a video at some point.


    Drew, will be following this thread with interest. How did your big preset translate?
    The parallel path behaviour... well it doesn't really work the same way as on the Helix, so I'm going to have to re-think my approach. But I think I can get the oscillation tones that I get with the Helix, it's not a million miles apart. Basically I need to figure out if bringing a compressors mix from 0% to 100%, when I crank my oscillation expression pedal, works. If it does then I'm fairly certain I can do everything in a series path.
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  • CabicularCabicular Frets: 2214
    Cabicular said:
    I had an FX8 for a while as well
    its a perfectly good unit but it was giving me a headache with the pages of parameters 
    I though the drives were a bit stiff as well and didn't like the limitations of how many types of effects
    I agree about the pitch and synth stuff and the envelope filters are a lot of fun
    having said that if I could get all that from the TC G-System for 1/3 of the price (albeit double the weight)
    Overall it's pretty good and if I wanted FX only and didn't fiddle about too much then it would be great
    Couldn't live with those drives though


    When did you have one?

    There was a significant update to the drives at some point... I know I know everyone with a digital unit rolls out this phrase... but no really.  I used to use my real SD1 at home sometimes because the model was a bit muddy, though it worked ok if you used the EQ to reduce the bass a little.  After the update I compared again and found them so close that I couldn't be bothered with the extra cabling anymore.

    I found the muff model to sound better than any real muff I've owned, though I only really use that sound on bass now

    If anything I find the analogue pitch model to be too glitchy for tracking.  I prefer my MXR BOD.
    I'm not against digital drives at all, I used the drives in the M13 for years quite happily and all my Helix stuff is digi
    it was a couple of years ago so maybe they have come on.
    i could get in the ball park with a bit of tweaking around with the parameters but they always felt pretty rigid, lke they needed more dynamics
    hard to describe
    it was a great unit but just not for me
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  • Cabicular said:
    I'm not against digital drives at all, I used the drives in the M13 for years quite happily and all my Helix stuff is digi
    it was a couple of years ago so maybe they have come on.
    i could get in the ball park with a bit of tweaking around with the parameters but they always felt pretty rigid, lke they needed more dynamics
    hard to describe
    it was a great unit but just not for me

    That's fair enough.  

    I don't use digital drives much myself, except as boosts, or sometimes fuzz to use with octavers.  I tend to prefer the sound of amp distortion anyway.  

    I just know at some point there was a big noise about a drive pedal update with Fractal, and I found it actually did make a noticeable difference with the SD1 and Tubescreamer models for the way I use them (which is mostly into an already distorted amp).

    FWIW I was telling Drew to buy a second Helix instead of the FX8, so he'd not have to worry about transporting things to and from places or have to deal with writing with two different sets of limitations.  I think everything has its own pros and cons at the end of the day, it's interesting to compare though
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  • cbellangacbellanga Frets: 572
    edited August 2017
    I’ve been with my ax8 for some good time now and before I had the fx8.

    Recently I got a helix LT to try and the only thing that bothered me / made me return it was its size..

    I’d replace the ax8 without thinking twice if the helix was a little bit more compact ( I.e dropping the built it exp pedal). The UI is so much nicer and the sound quality is as good as the fractal in my POV.
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  • John_AJohn_A Frets: 3775
    cbellanga said:
    I’ve been with my ax8 for some good time now and before I had the fx8.

    Recently I got a helix LT to try and the only thing that bothered me / made me return it was its size..

    I’d replace the ax8 without thinking twice if the helix was a little bit more compact ( I.e dropping the built it exp pedal). The UI is so much nicer and the sound quality is as good as the fractal in my POV.
    Would have with that when I first got the Helix as I never used the expression pedal.  I'm now using it loads so glad it's there.  It is a big lump though!
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  • gearaddictgearaddict Frets: 894
    John_A said:
    cbellanga said:
    I’ve been with my ax8 for some good time now and before I had the fx8.

    Recently I got a helix LT to try and the only thing that bothered me / made me return it was its size..

    I’d replace the ax8 without thinking twice if the helix was a little bit more compact ( I.e dropping the built it exp pedal). The UI is so much nicer and the sound quality is as good as the fractal in my POV.
    Would have with that when I first got the Helix as I never used the expression pedal.  I'm now using it loads so glad it's there.  It is a big lump though!
    It is slightly smaller than a Pod HD500X but not by much. I was a bit surprised when I unpacked it (that's what she said)  as I had expected it to be significantly smaller. That said, it would be tricky to hit the footswitches if they were much closer together so I guess that is a major limiting factor on units like that.

    I do like the exp pedal but it should be on the other side =) I suppose I would be happy if it didn't have a built-in one and had to use an external. At least I could put it on the left, which is where all exp pedals should be =)
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  • I'd much rather a unit have space so the switches aren't packed.  That's what has stopped me getting the MFC for my Axe FX, I'm clumsy and lacking in balance enough as it is without making the targets smaller.

    I'm right footed though so expression on the right suits me fine.
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  • gearaddictgearaddict Frets: 894
    I think I'm right footed too...but that means when I stand on my left foot I fall over.
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  • I think I'm right footed too...but that means when I stand on my left foot I fall over.
    That's basically how I  feel when I try and aim my left foot at anything.  I'd probably miss the exp pedal altogether on the left hand side lol
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  • MoltisantiMoltisanti Frets: 1131
    i use the FX8 drives into a JCM800 after A/Bing them with the real thing, i couldn;t tell the difference. 

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  • WazmeisterWazmeister Frets: 9446
    Good review Drew...

    I think that the verbs on the FX8 were, and are, superior... 

    But the Helix scores on the incredible UI, and huge variety of options within.
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  • Drew_TNBDDrew_TNBD Frets: 22445
    At the gig last night I used the Helix. Fantastic sounds with my Diezel D-Moll and the Helix in tandem.... if I can toot my own horn for a moment, we fucking blew everyone away... !! Loved it!

    The Helix was a joy to use. No tweaking was necessary, just jumping around 8 scenes across all 5 songs (our songs are long!) and some additional expression pedal use for oscillation effects, and then using my Dunlop wah wah pedal.

    Things I noticed:

    - Our other guitarist who also has a helix gets some FANTASTIC wah-wah sounds from his Helix... I need to get a copy of his patch, because he gets this really thick lush synthetic texture from the Helix wah that I don't have... and I fucking want it! He has this soaring overly resonant thing going on, and I love it.

    - The Helix tuner is just not very good imo. I am going to have to figure something out, because it takes too long to tune and in a live environment wasting anymore than 30seconds in between songs leads the entire audience to question what the fuck is going on... and when you're crafting deep post-metal up-its-own-arse bullshit, you need to keep everyone on the same page.

    - Tuner again.... turning the tuner on just kills reverb and delay trails... ruins the effect of the music.

    - The Adriatic delay is EPIC!! Line 6 should release that in it's own pedal at some point.
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  • Surely the tuner can be improved?  I take it there must be requests regarding this
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  • Drew_TNBDDrew_TNBD Frets: 22445
    Surely the tuner can be improved?  I take it there must be requests regarding this
    There is big division in the community as to whether it's inaccurate or not, even after the update that addressed it! I *think* it is basically because the refresh rate isn't quick enough, and they've split the tuner across two bars. The big bar for rough tuning, and the small bar for the -10/+10 cents range. But this forces your eye to switch between two different places, and because the refresh rate isn't high enough, you end up either under or overtuning because essentially the tuner isn't in sync with your physical actions on the tuning pegs.

    The FX8 tracks much smoother and is a joy to use.
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