The Helix VS Fractal FX8 Thread

Clarky

I have reasonable experience with the Helix now.. and a few hours experience with the FX8..
my take from what I encountered first hand..

for functionality, overall the Helix is a "bigger" unit than the FX8.. it's closer to the Axe-fx in that respect..

amp / cab modelling in the FX8 is better but this does not mean that the Helix is not good

most fx in the FX8 are better [reverb, delay, pitch, chorus, phaser, vibe are the ones I know for sure]
and the fx in the FX8 are more configurable

if memory serves, the FX8 don't have the Grid that it's big bro [Axe-fx] has..
the Grid is such a powerful tool it really is a massive shame that it's missing this..
the Helix looks better to me with the paths 1a/1b/2a/2b but even this has limitations I personally find difficult to live with..

can support 2 XP's in the FX8, can support 3 XP's in the Helix

to summarise [my personal opinion]
the Helix is a better / more capable all round unit that sounds good and is very intuitive to use..
but what the FX8 does better [tone and individual fx] it does head and shoulders better..
if I had to choose between them I'd go for the Helix, but I'd need to bolster it with some external fx via the fx-loops [pitch, delay, phaser in particular].. 
here's how I'd sort the Helix if I had one
gtr -> vol pedal -> wah -> pitch-shifter -> Helix -> power amp
in the loop I'd have a good multi-fx unit or a couple of good stomps to handle what the Helix is not good at and to unload it a little [to overcome DPS limitations] and leave the Helix to do what it's good at..

Wazmeister

@Clarky - a perfect summary mate.

Spot on, and I agree 100%

digitalscream

Clarky said:

amp / cab modelling in the FX8 is better but this does not mean that the Helix is not good

The FX8 doesn't have amp/cab modelling, does it? Are you talking about the AX8?

guitarfishbay

digitalscream said:

Clarky said:

amp / cab modelling in the FX8 is better but this does not mean that the Helix is not good

The FX8 doesn't have amp/cab modelling, does it? Are you talking about the AX8?

I think he's just mentioned the Fractal modelling along with it.

The rest of the post relates to the FX8 - the AX8 has the grid setup like the Axe FX. Actually, why doesn't the FX8 have it too in that case? Seems a bit daft!

Otherwise I agree with his post, based on Native at least. Well, with one exception - I really like simple pitch for octave down monophonic playing in Native. It tracks decently on guitar but has that slightly synths sound I enjoy. On the Fractal you get either great tracking digital sounding pitch, or slightly too glitchy for my tastes analogue/synths sounding pitch, unless I'm doing something wrong.

Cabicular

I use a relay G70 which has a built in tuner which is much more accessible Than the Helixes and would allow ambience to continue while you tune
also has the added bonus of making you wireless 

menamestom

Clarky said:

most fx in the FX8 are better [reverb, delay, pitch, chorus, phaser, vibe are the ones I know for sure]

New reverbs are coming for the Helix, so hopefully at least the first in the list will be addressed imminently.

guitarfishbay

Cabicular said:

I use a relay G70 which has a built in tuner which is much more accessible Than the Helixes and would allow ambience to continue while you tune
also has the added bonus of making you wireless 

Yeah but they'll need to reprint all those album covers if he goes wireless / dream / wireless

Cabicular

I find the Phaser in the Helix good but too much by default . I always bump the level and reduce the mix
the Gray Flanger is a thing of beauty especially in stereo after the amps
I end up with it on every patch I do. It's superb. The best Flanger I've ever had

Fiftyshadesofjay

Drew_TNBD said:

At the gig last night I used the Helix. Fantastic sounds with my Diezel D-Moll and the Helix in tandem.... if I can toot my own horn for a moment, we fucking blew everyone away... !! Loved it!

The Helix was a joy to use. No tweaking was necessary, just jumping around 8 scenes across all 5 songs (our songs are long!) and some additional expression pedal use for oscillation effects, and then using my Dunlop wah wah pedal.

Things I noticed:

- Our other guitarist who also has a helix gets some FANTASTIC wah-wah sounds from his Helix... I need to get a copy of his patch, because he gets this really thick lush synthetic texture from the Helix wah that I don't have... and I fucking want it! He has this soaring overly resonant thing going on, and I love it.

- The Helix tuner is just not very good imo. I am going to have to figure something out, because it takes too long to tune and in a live environment wasting anymore than 30seconds in between songs leads the entire audience to question what the fuck is going on... and when you're crafting deep post-metal up-its-own-arse bullshit, you need to keep everyone on the same page.

- Tuner again.... turning the tuner on just kills reverb and delay trails... ruins the effect of the music.

- The Adriatic delay is EPIC!! Line 6 should release that in it's own pedal at some point.

Don't know if it'll work for you but I used to set up a send right at the start of the chain and link a polytune up to it. That way it's always on when you're playing and you can mute using your volume pedal, keeping the trails etc. 

The Helix tuner is utterly pants for live use.

Clarky

digitalscream said:

Clarky said:

amp / cab modelling in the FX8 is better but this does not mean that the Helix is not good

The FX8 doesn't have amp/cab modelling, does it? Are you talking about the AX8?

yes of course..  my mistake.... 

Drew_TNBD

So I've got the FX8 changing channels on my Diezel, got it connected in 4-cable method, hooked up using midi.

I had to disable X/Y holding so the channel changes were instantaneous. 

FX8 reverbs are quite a bit 'smoother' than the Helix... rack verbs versus pedal verbs, basically.... 

I can get close to the tonality of the Adriatic delay on the FX8, but I can't get the exact same resonant characteristic... I think I need to play with the EQ tab a bit more.

Delays on the Helix are generally washier and decay away faster than the FX8. Which in most cases I prefer. The FX8 off the bat has more of a logarithmic decay shape, across all modes, which makes for very interesting rhythmic combinations, but it's a bit harder to get them go all crunchy and analog pedal-like.

Drew_TNBD

If anyone is curious, here are the relative noise floors of each unit. Helix first, then FX8:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/30378agjhgj0gjb/FX8NoiseFloorVersusHelixNoiseFloor.mp3?dl=0

I've boosted it a bit to make it more audible, but the relative differences are still intact. The Helix absolutely pistolwhips the FX8 right into the ground!

I've played with all the audio I/O settings... nothing makes a difference to the raw noise-floor. This is without an amp connected too, just got the FX8 in one of the Helix's loops and I'm toggling the bypass. Noise-floor on the FX8 doesn't change if I use it outside of a Helix loop.

It's a very significant difference.

welshboyo

I've had both FX8 and Helix too, but apart from the comparison of effects quality etc, I don't think there is any relevance in comparing features as the FX8 can't do what the Helix does (modelling etc) and neither can the AX8 (relay switching etc in 4CM)

For me, the Helix wins over as it does the whole amp model gig ala AX8 but it also easily covers the ground of the FX8 in front of an amp AND handles all of the real amp switching with no extra hardware (you'll need an RJM Gizmo or similar to do this with the AX8)

I'll admit that I never have been a massive "modeller" guy and still tend to use a real amp live where space permits but when we do go backline-less I really don't get this "under the fingers" comments? To me, it just sounds the same...OK, your trousers ain't flapping in the wind but all of the noises, nuances and feel (is that it perhaps??!!) are there..

Another thing where the Helix wins hand down is versatility - you can route anything anywhere and this was miles ahead of the FX8 and was a little daunting at 1st.

guitarfishbay

Yes the Helix is the most versatile unit available, no question there. But there's value in owning both to Drew as between them there's pretty much any FX sound you'd want - more so than owning a bunch of separate pedals to the value of the FX 8 anyway IMO

simonk

Drew_TNBD said:

If anyone is curious, here are the relative noise floors of each unit. Helix first, then FX8:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/30378agjhgj0gjb/FX8NoiseFloorVersusHelixNoiseFloor.mp3?dl=0

I've boosted it a bit to make it more audible, but the relative differences are still intact. The Helix absolutely pistolwhips the FX8 right into the ground!

I've played with all the audio I/O settings... nothing makes a difference to the raw noise-floor. This is without an amp connected too, just got the FX8 in one of the Helix's loops and I'm toggling the bypass. Noise-floor on the FX8 doesn't change if I use it outside of a Helix loop.

It's a very significant difference.

My FX8 is dead silent I have to say, and that's just using regular cables, not humbusters, in 4CM with my MkV25. Wonder if yours has an issue.

Drew_TNBD

simonk said:

Drew_TNBD said:

If anyone is curious, here are the relative noise floors of each unit. Helix first, then FX8:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/30378agjhgj0gjb/FX8NoiseFloorVersusHelixNoiseFloor.mp3?dl=0

I've boosted it a bit to make it more audible, but the relative differences are still intact. The Helix absolutely pistolwhips the FX8 right into the ground!

I've played with all the audio I/O settings... nothing makes a difference to the raw noise-floor. This is without an amp connected too, just got the FX8 in one of the Helix's loops and I'm toggling the bypass. Noise-floor on the FX8 doesn't change if I use it outside of a Helix loop.

It's a very significant difference.

My FX8 is dead silent I have to say, and that's just using regular cables, not humbusters, in 4CM with my MkV25. Wonder if yours has an issue.

It could be amp specific, not sure. I've not tried it with my other amps yet.

It's not completely intolerable, but its definitely there.

octatonic

My FX8 is silent.
I also don't bother with humbuster cables, despite owning them- they just aren't necessary for my setup.

Drew_TNBD

Spent quite a bit of time using them both now. They're obviously both top-notch devices, and neither of them ruin your core amp tone when in 4-cable-method... coupled with amp switching abilities... that alone is reason enough to get either of them.

Things I don't like about the FX8:

- Too many LED indicators. It's also confusing to see the scene LED lit up at the same time as seeing which effects are lit up. At least for me. Even just at home I was getting confused as to which mode I was in, and if that happens on a dark stage in the heat of the moment, you can potentially have a disastrous gig!

- I don't like that I don't have a 'signal path' chain view. I don't like the workflow of adding, changing, and editing FX on the hardware. Seems to me like it has been designed explicitly with the idea that most people will do their editing in software.

- I find the footswitches a little too close together. Not disastrous, but the Helix feels more comfortable to use.


- Snapshots on the Helix are way more capable than on the FX8. Mostly because of the parameter control. You're not limited to just two scene controllers like on the FX8. Considering the extra flexibility on the Helix, it's actually way easier to set the snapshots and parameter changes up as well. The FX8 feels sluggish in this regard.

And to be fair...

Things I don't like about the Helix:

- Tuner. Said it before, but I'll say it again. Takes too long to tune because of their implementation.

- Across the board I'd say the delay effects decay away a bit too quickly when compared to the FX8. Even when using high-feedback values. This isn't usually a problem for me, but sometimes I want a bit more punch. It's not something I ever really noticed or thought about until comparing with the FX8 though, so maybe this one is more of a subjective thing.

- Better reverbs are coming I know, but until then the FX8 does win.

- The noise-gates aren't "intelligent" on the Helix.

- I'm not a massive fan of the travel on the built in expression pedal. I can't use it for volume swells because it's uncomfortable, and I don't like it for wah control either. Which means that I mostly use it just for delay oscillation effects, and because of that... I lose the ability to do anything interesting with the toe switch.

- The Bucket Brigade delay and Elephant Man delay effects have limited delay time. Which means you can't get a quarter note out of them at 100bpm. So I am limited to the Adriatic Delay if I want an analog flavour with a quarter note. I'd love it if Line 6 could either give us more analog flavours of delay that can do quarter notes, or just sack off the delay time limitations altogether.

If I was going to round up these units: 

- Get the Helix if you want LOADS of control options, better snapshot/scene behaviour, freedom to have any number of effects you want, and true parallel chains, any bonuses like cab IR's and routing to multiple destinations. Get the Helix if you want a very quick plug and play experience with very little tweaking required.

- Get the FX8 if you want superior reverbs and tuner. Get the FX8 if you want a huge range of those reverbs and delays too. Get it if you want to really get into every single parameter. Get it if you know you don't need anymore than 8 effects at once.

guitarfishbay

Would an AX8 be a better choice in context?

It has the grid, so you could do your parallel stuff.

I'm not sure how much more faff it is for 4CM than the FX8, or if it has different DSP capabilities used primarily for effects, but I know you mentioned not wanting rack gear which of course rules out the Axe FX

Drew_TNBD

guitarfishbay said:

Would an AX8 be a better choice in context?

It has the grid, so you could do your parallel stuff.

I'm not sure how much more faff it is for 4CM than the FX8, or if it has different DSP capabilities used primarily for effects, but I know you mentioned not wanting rack gear which of course rules out the Axe FX

I'm not sure it would tbh. Some of the things I am doing with the Helix can only really be done on the Axe FX II.