Vintage TS808 vs TS9

JEPBLEP

I think I need some TS-ness to compliment a future KOT. I like the idea of having an original vintage TS. So between the TS808 and the T9 - are there any significant tonal differences? Should I believe the hype? What do you prefer? Worth having both? 

mike_l

Also consider the Maxon range, very similar to the Ibanez's but cheaper. I've had 2 (at the same time), and yes they're very different (I did my own  back-to-back comparison).
Also, I understand, that Maxon did make some of the Ibanez models.........
Yes, different, get them used, and shift on if you don't like.

Sassafras

TS-9 switch is more reliable.
They all sound pretty much the same to me. Maybe the TS-9 is slightly brighter.

ICBM

If they have the same chips (basic type - ie 4558 vs 2043 etc, not minor variations) then they essentially sound the same. The only other circuit difference is two resistors in the output buffer, which have no effect on the sound - I once fitted a switch to a TS-9 to select the 808 values and it did nothing audible at all…

However, individual examples of both certainly can vary quite noticeably due to component tolerances and drift, so it's not possible to say definitively whether one sounds better than the other or vice versa, but it's very likely that if you have one of each they will sound different… but so will two of the same.

As Sassafras said, the TS-9 switch is more reliable, and it has a modern barrel power jack. So I would pick the TS-9. It's only worth having both if you need two Tube Screamers… and then I'd probably get two 9s. But I honestly think you'd be bonkers to pay the prices that originals go for anyway - even the reissues are questionable, unless you *must* have the authentic look.

Voxman

Save yourself a small fortune and buy this for under £18 from Gear 4 Music - has to be one of the best most under-rated TS clones out there, that has the original 4558 IC and MA150 Distortion Diodes as used in the original.  I've had mine as a permanent fixture on my pedalboard for around 10 years & it's been rock solid & sounds great.  Had it next to my friends original TS808 and apart from the TO800 having better tonal range, we couldn't tell them apart.  And don't be put off because of the plastic case or the Behringer name - it's as tough as old boots.  

http://www.gear4music.com/Guitar-and-Bass/Behringer-TO800-Vintage-Tube-Overdrive-Effects-Pedal/6LH

JEPBLEP

ICBM said:

If they have the same chips (basic type - ie 4558 vs 2043 etc, not minor variations) then they essentially sound the same. The only other circuit difference is two resistors in the output buffer, which have no effect on the sound - I once fitted a switch to a TS-9 to select the 808 values and it did nothing audible at all…

However, individual examples of both certainly can vary quite noticeably due to component tolerances and drift, so it's not possible to say definitively whether one sounds better than the other or vice versa, but it's very likely that if you have one of each they will sound different… but so will two of the same.

As Sassafras said, the TS-9 switch is more reliable, and it has a modern barrel power jack. So I would pick the TS-9. It's only worth having both if you need two Tube Screamers… and then I'd probably get two 9s. But I honestly think you'd be bonkers to pay the prices that originals go for anyway - even the reissues are questionable, unless you *must* have the authentic look.

Appreciate the valuable first hand experience there and the backgrounder - figured the case and switch design on the TS9 looked more stompable than the TS808. Seems the wiser choice is to buy a modern incarnation or indeed a clone.

Having said that, originality is definitely a big driver in an ever growing collection of irrational purchases. From the material I've been digesting, the TS808 was the original, with the (r)-marked one with the Malaysian RC4558P going for about double the price of a (regular) vintage 808. 

@mike_l & @Sassafras - thanks for the advice!

Roland

TS-9 is the later design. It's physically stronger and more reliable than the TS-8, and I find the switch much easier to hit on a dark stage. The Maxon is very similar, but slightly cheaper. The Keeley modded TS-9 has quieter, and ought to be more reliable, but costs a lot more.

I chose the TS-9 for my (pre Fractal) board, and happened to find a discounted Keeley at a guitar show. 

JEPBLEP

Voxman said:

Save yourself a small fortune and buy this for under £18 from Gear 4 Music - has to be one of the best most under-rated TS clones out there, that has the original 4558 IC and MA150 Distortion Diodes as used in the original.  I've had mine as a permanent fixture on my pedalboard for around 10 years & it's been rock solid & sounds great.  Had it next to my friends original TS808 and apart from the TO800 having better tonal range, we couldn't tell them apart.  And don't be put off because of the plastic case or the Behringer name - it's as tough as old boots.  

http://www.gear4music.com/Guitar-and-Bass/Behringer-TO800-Vintage-Tube-Overdrive-Effects-Pedal/6LH

Wow. That's a bit of a stark contrast (in price). Good shout though - thanks for the tip! 

ICBM

JEPBLEP said:

From the material I've been digesting, the TS808 was the original, with the (r)-marked one with the Malaysian RC4558P going for about double the price of a (regular) vintage 808.

That really is astonishingly stupid. The 'regular' vintage 808 goes for a crazy price anyway, even compared to the reissue which itself is ridiculous. Basically it's just a question of exactly how much too much you want to pay for a box which sounds exactly like a Tube Screamer … and anyway, the Japanese JRC chip is the original, not the Malaysian RC one, although they did alternate - presumably as Maxon sourced them from wherever was cheaper.

http://www.analogman.com/tshist.htm

For what it's worth Analogman - who has probably handled more TSs than anyone else on the planet - thinks the JRC chip sounds better. He also thinks it's very difficult to tell apart an original TS-9 from an early reissue one - because they are essentially identical.

If it really is a TS-808 you want, I would simply buy a second hand (less than perfect condition) reissue and call it quits at that .

Pete24v

I've had loads of TS pedals, it's really not worth getting caught up in the whole (really) vintage thing in my option. 

My first TS-9 was the 90's reissue, which sounded fine. I then started reading internet forums about Keeley etc, so i bought a Baked TS-9 but it wasn't that different... so i then got his TS-808 mod plus, which was ok.. but i still preferred the 90's reissue.

Had various Maxon versions, all sound good... sound like TS pedals..

The 90's reissue pedal developed an issue with the drive pot not always working (Thanks @ICBM for helping diagnose the loose wire on drive pot a few years ago!)

In the time when it wasn't working I started using a battered TS-10 that i picked up in Germany when on tour in the late 90's (along with a load of other 10 series pedals dirt cheap). The TS-10 sounded great!! better than my 90's reissue. 

So i had the Analogman true vintage mod done to the reissue. 

It's brilliant. Sounds as good as my TS-10 (which has a crappy failing switch now) and easily as good as my friends 1983 TS-9.

midlifecrisis

i have an original TS9 which i bought new in 1982 i think. its still going strong and realistically i would sell it for a decent amount but tbh it doesnt sound any different from the cheap copies or the tubescreamer on my zoom g3 but it does have tons and tons of mojo, and women will fall at your feet when you play it

Sassafras

midlifecrisis said:

i have an original TS9 which i bought new in 1982 i think. its still going strong and realistically i would sell it for a decent amount but tbh it doesnt sound any different from the cheap copies or the tubescreamer on my zoom g3 but it does have tons and tons of mojo, and women will fall at your feet when you play it

A woman did once fall at my feet even though I wasn't using a vintage TS9.
She was having an epileptic fit.
Quite disconcerting to think my playing could trigger a seizure.

JEPBLEP

midlifecrisis said:

i have an original TS9 which i bought new in 1982 i think. its still going strong and realistically i would sell it for a decent amount but tbh it doesnt sound any different from the cheap copies or the tubescreamer on my zoom g3 but it does have tons and tons of mojo, and women will fall at your feet when you play it

Eugh. Last thing I need is more women at my feet. 

TimmyO

JEPBLEP said:

ICBM said:

If they have the same chips (basic type - ie 4558 vs 2043 etc, not minor variations) then they essentially sound the same. The only other circuit difference is two resistors in the output buffer, which have no effect on the sound - I once fitted a switch to a TS-9 to select the 808 values and it did nothing audible at all…

However, individual examples of both certainly can vary quite noticeably due to component tolerances and drift, so it's not possible to say definitively whether one sounds better than the other or vice versa, but it's very likely that if you have one of each they will sound different… but so will two of the same.

As Sassafras said, the TS-9 switch is more reliable, and it has a modern barrel power jack. So I would pick the TS-9. It's only worth having both if you need two Tube Screamers… and then I'd probably get two 9s. But I honestly think you'd be bonkers to pay the prices that originals go for anyway - even the reissues are questionable, unless you *must* have the authentic look.

Appreciate the valuable first hand experience there and the backgrounder - figured the case and switch design on the TS9 looked more stompable than the TS808. Seems the wiser choice is to buy a modern incarnation or indeed a clone.

Having said that, originality is definitely a big driver in an ever growing collection of irrational purchases. From the material I've been digesting, the TS808 was the original, with the (r)-marked one with the Malaysian RC4558P going for about double the price of a (regular) vintage 808. 

@mike_l & @Sassafras - thanks for the advice!

Technically isn't the Boss OD-1 the "first tubescreamer type" ? 

TimmyO

(my favourite 'tubescreamer' was the Hardwire CM-2) 

ICBM

TimmyO said:

Technically isn't the Boss OD-1 the "first tubescreamer type" ? 

Yes.

TimmyO

ICBM said:

TimmyO said:

Technically isn't the Boss OD-1 the "first tubescreamer type" ? 

Yes.

there you go @JEPBLEP - that's where the real hipster mojo is at! 

dano

TimmyO said:

(my favourite 'tubescreamer' was the Hardwire CM-2) 

I'd recommend the CM-2 as well.  A great sounding TS.

gearaddict

I've never really liked TS pedals...I think I've never had the right amp to make them sound good. I really like my Danelectro Transparent Overdrive though...I think that's meant to be more like a Timmy though. Allegedly. I got on ok with the Bad Monkey but that was a bit more tweakable, with the separate bass control.

midlifecrisis

Ive always had a tubescreamer , then i started using a zoom g3 and the drive i chose was the tubescreamer on that. more recently ive been using  a Katana amp and without making a conscious decision i tried all the on board drive pedals effects and the one i preferred was the tubescreamer. 

siraxeman

Hardwire CM-2. Its just as good at that sound plus has more gain on tap if you want it plus is just more versatile with the modern setting. Just better for less.

Visual Sounds Route 808 is better also for having a bass boost option.

Heck even the Joyo and Mooer versions are just as good.

The only real reason to me for getting an Ibanez TS nowdays is if you're a brand name whore....they all sound as good just some have even more under the hood.