Long Speaker Cables.

Si_Si_ Frets: 384
Are they any issues with having a Long speaker cable?

I'm thinking of putting a small pedal sized amp (a Quilter Microblock) on my board and running the speaker cable back to a 2x12. Just wanted to make sure there were no issues with a 5-10m speaker cable.Thanks




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Comments

  • ICBMICBM Frets: 71960
    No issues if it's a cable of decent gauge.

    The only thing that matters is the resistance, and any normal speaker cable will be low enough for it not to be a problem over that sort of distance.

    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski

    "Just because I don't care, doesn't mean I don't understand." - Homer Simpson

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  • I run a 10m cable from my AMP1 (on the board) to my 1x12 cab. It's fine. It's a ClearTone cable from Award Session - just in case you're interested in what it is. 
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  • Just make sure you have a sufficient gauge, if in doubt go bigger - just make sure you have sufficiently big boots on the jacks to be able to take a larger gauge
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  • ICBMICBM Frets: 71960
    At guitar amp power levels there's definitely no need to go bigger than standard 'lawnmower' type power cable. That will easily fit through the boot of Neutrik plugs (which you should be using!).

    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski

    "Just because I don't care, doesn't mean I don't understand." - Homer Simpson

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  • ecc83ecc83 Frets: 1591

    Not quite sure where the idea that you need HD cables for guitar speakers came from (hi fi nuts?) but it ain't so. 6 amp orange Flymo cable is more than good enough. Worse case (?) 100W into 4 Ohms =5 amps rms and even that won't ever be continuous enough to get the cable above ambient temp!

    Damping factor? Even a hefty 100W valve amp will have an output resistance of 10 Ohms or so and a 30W EL84 (no NFB) jobbie more like 50 Ohms. No, guitar amps leave speaker cones to do their own thang!

    Stabilty. Now, THIS could be a problem with a solid state amp but I doubt even 10mtr of 'side by side' cable would cause trouble. 10mtr of shielded cable might. Valve power stages should be virtually immune to stability issues even those with a whiff of NFB.

    Bottom line. Garden Centre, orange wire, Nuky plugs, job's a good 'un.  If ANYTHING gets warm it will be the jacks and so fit better sockets!

    Dave.

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  • Danny1969Danny1969 Frets: 10357
    I wouldn't use orange wire, looks shit under stage lights. Simple black 2 core unshielded speaker wire is cheaper than mains cable if you buy it from CPC
    www.2020studios.co.uk 
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  • ICBMICBM Frets: 71960
    Danny1969 said:
    I wouldn't use orange wire, looks shit under stage lights. Simple black 2 core unshielded speaker wire is cheaper than mains cable if you buy it from CPC
    Is it round-section, or flat/figure-8?

    The great beauty of power cable (I also prefer grey, doesn't look as bad as orange and still makes it clear it's not an instrument lead) is that not only is it very physically robust, being round section it's gripped really well by the Neutrik cable clamp, whereas flat/figure-8 isn't.

    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski

    "Just because I don't care, doesn't mean I don't understand." - Homer Simpson

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  • ESBlondeESBlonde Frets: 3576
    Only issue not mentioned is coils, never leave a speaker lead (or mains lead for that matter) coiled up in use. Unroll all of it and scatter or at least large figure 8 the spare. There will be heat generation in the mains and inductance in a coiled speaker lead. For a Guitar amp the length won't be critical but for full range the bass might suffer over 40 feet.
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  • ICBMICBM Frets: 71960
    ESBlonde said:
    Only issue not mentioned is coils, never leave a speaker lead (or mains lead for that matter) coiled up in use. Unroll all of it and scatter or at least large figure 8 the spare. There will be heat generation in the mains and inductance in a coiled speaker lead.
    Totally negligible at this sort of power level for speaker cables. It's an issue for mains extension cables, yes.

    ESBlonde said:

    For a Guitar amp the length won't be critical but for full range the bass might suffer over 40 feet.
    It won't. I used to have a pair of 50m speaker cables I used for outdoor PA, made by simply buying a 100m reel of 2-core mains cable and cutting it in half. It was used for full-range audio and there was no noticeable loss of bass.

    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski

    "Just because I don't care, doesn't mean I don't understand." - Homer Simpson

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  • Danny1969Danny1969 Frets: 10357
    ICBM said:
    Danny1969 said:
    I wouldn't use orange wire, looks shit under stage lights. Simple black 2 core unshielded speaker wire is cheaper than mains cable if you buy it from CPC
    Is it round-section, or flat/figure-8?

    The great beauty of power cable (I also prefer grey, doesn't look as bad as orange and still makes it clear it's not an instrument lead) is that not only is it very physically robust, being round section it's gripped really well by the Neutrik cable clamp, whereas flat/figure-8 isn't.
    It's round, like 2 core mains cable, we use it for installs as the Neutrik Speakons grip it well and it's got a robust jacket for pulling through ceilings 
    In general though mains cable is fine and readily available in B &Q
    www.2020studios.co.uk 
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  • ecc83ecc83 Frets: 1591

    Bit of confusion here about 'Inductance'? A coiled two core cable is non-inductive, the send and return currents cancel.

    Even if extra inductance was present it would result in a small decrease in HF not bass and since guitar speakers 'give up' past about 8kHz, you would probably never know!

    If a cable were long enough to insert significant resistance it would worsen the damping factor (a bit!) and that would result in MORE bass, not less.  But you need a flipping lot of 5/6A cable to get even 4 Ohms.

    As IC said DON'T leave mains extension coiled. Cable ratings are for free air.

    Dave.

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  • ecc83 said:

    As IC said DON'T leave mains extension coiled. Cable ratings are for free air.

    Dave.



    I've got a 10m reel with a 4-way gang in the middle. When you say "don't leave it coiled" do you mean that I should unwind all 10m when I use it at a gig? 
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  • ICBMICBM Frets: 71960
    vasselmeyer said:

    I've got a 10m reel with a 4-way gang in the middle. When you say "don't leave it coiled" do you mean that I should unwind all 10m when I use it at a gig? 
    Yes, unless you're absolutely sure the maximum current draw is less than the 'wound' rating - it should be stated on the reel along with the 'unwound' rating. If it's not stated then do not use it without unwinding it fully.

    Forth what it's worth I have seen a coiled power cable melt when a band was using it. It didn't actually blow anything, but it turned itself into a solid lump of plastic that then couldn't be unwound when it had cooled down.

    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski

    "Just because I don't care, doesn't mean I don't understand." - Homer Simpson

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  • ESBlondeESBlonde Frets: 3576
    ICBM said:
    ESBlonde said:
    Only issue not mentioned is coils, never leave a speaker lead (or mains lead for that matter) coiled up in use. Unroll all of it and scatter or at least large figure 8 the spare. There will be heat generation in the mains and inductance in a coiled speaker lead.
    Totally negligible at this sort of power level for speaker cables. It's an issue for mains extension cables, yes.

    ESBlonde said:

    For a Guitar amp the length won't be critical but for full range the bass might suffer over 40 feet.
    It won't. I used to have a pair of 50m speaker cables I used for outdoor PA, made by simply buying a 100m reel of 2-core mains cable and cutting it in half. It was used for full-range audio and there was no noticeable loss of bass.
    The advice I suggested is best practice for all applications, while this thread discusses guitar amps (so probably the weakest link is the dodgy connectivity of the 1/4" jack) some people use bigger setups for PA and such so knowing what you ought to do is a good thing even if we all take short cuts. If you can hear the difference in bass response outside I envy your ears.
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  • ICBMICBM Frets: 71960
    ESBlonde said:

    The advice I suggested is best practice for all applications, while this thread discusses guitar amps (so probably the weakest link is the dodgy connectivity of the 1/4" jack)
    That is true. In fact, worst of all are those female-to-female couplers - I had one of them burn out when one of my 50m cables wasn't long enough and I extended it with one. The centre rivet arced and spark-eroded itself away, which I found out when I cut it open to find out why something as apparently simple as an end-to-end connector could have stopped working! I would never recommend using one for speaker connections, other than the Neutrik locking one which is made much better.

    I wouldn't use any of this kind of stuff for PA at above about 150W per cabinet, you need proper speaker connectors and cables for that.

    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski

    "Just because I don't care, doesn't mean I don't understand." - Homer Simpson

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