Burtstbucker 1 and 2

menamestom

I have these on my Midtown.  They are pretty nice, I'm not blown away but I can work with them, they are sweet and not muddy.

However.  I've been thinking, best humbuckers I've had were BKP Stormy Monday's.   I've also heard Mule's that sounded ace.  Both in different guitars, however (LP type).

So I'm wondering if it's worth 'upgrading' burstbuckers and what peoples experiences are with them.  I've gone down the same rabbit hole with single coils and both guitars have Fender pickups back in them now after years of change.  Perhaps I should keep them as they are, I'm on the fence at the moment.

The other option is going a different route with a HB size P90.

Adamski

well I've literally just got my first guitar with BB in and I must say, having had many different humbuckers, they are quite nice! They are clear and low wound and realistically that's all I can ask in a Les Paul. I'm not overly sure that Mules, Lindy Fralins or Lollars are gonna give you MUCH extra, certainly not for the cost 

menamestom

Adamski said:

well I've literally just got my first guitar with BB in and I must say, having had many different humbuckers, they are quite nice! They are clear and low wound and realistically that's all I can ask in a Les Paul. I'm not overly sure that Mules, Lindy Fralins or Lollars are gonna give you MUCH extra, certainly not for the cost 

Yeah, you are probably right.  We're talking small differences and I should know better that to open the lid on this particular can of worms!

Funkfingers

I always suspected that Gibson Burstbuckers were voiced primarily for Les Paul models. The hollowness of an ES demands a different midrange emphasis. 

For semi-solid guitars, my tastes lean towards P.A.F.-alike humbuckers with Alnico 4 bar magnets. If you are undecided between humbucker and P90 sounds, consider the Seymour Duncan P-Rails and Triple Shot mounting surrounds. 

Alegree

Upgrading is purely subjective. Really nail down exactly what you're after and you'll find better by seeking that. That's why custom work comes at a premium, provided we can deliver as you've asked, custom will give the closest to what you want. That is the biggest upgrade possible.

imalrightjack

I put Bareknuckle Mississippi Queens in my Midtown. Wonderful if you like P90s (add a Bigsby too) but @theguitarweasel could get you some Oil City Nightfighters that would do a great job.

Panama_Jack666

OX4's

underdog

When I see the prices asked for some pickups I'm quite amazed, BK being the first that spring to mind in the more than I'd pay range, there are several internet favorites but don't want to upset people by naming them.

If you can't get a set tailored for you by oilcity/mojo/alegree that you like then spending twice as much (or more) on something else probably won't help either 

Rabs

I recently did a guitar and put a Burstbucker Pro in the bridge and a Seymour Duncan Phat Cat (a humbucker sized P90 ish pup) in the neck... And it makes great sounds...  and the middle position is very interesting.

normula1

I absolutely love the BB2 in the bridge of my SG. I swapped the BB1 for my totally amazing sounds great in anything Duncan '59, snd put the BB1 in my Epi LP where its doing a sterling job.

RandallFlagg

I had BB1 & 2 in a 2007 R9 and the stock Gibson Custombuckers in my 2016 R8 are much nicer sounding but I don't thye are for sale as aftermarket replacements. If it was me I would try a set of OX4s.

OilCityPickups

One could of course hang on for Gibson to produce a 'new more authentic' PAF alike ... obviously more authentic than the one they made last year ... which was supposed to be the most authentic ever (which was more authentic than the one they made two years before)  
;-)

jellybelly

I tried BB1&2, BB Pros, 490 & 492, 57/57+ and BKP Mules in the Les Paul I had. I still have a set of BKP Stormy Mondays in my Yamaha 335-alike and used them as a benchmark when testing them all. 

The BKPs, both sets, were neck and shoulders above the Gibson pickups. No contest. The Stormy Mondays in particular were present and articulate while the Mules had this great midrange push and compression. By comparison the others ranged from thin to woofy and the burstbucker 1&2 combo was underpowered. A 2&3 set might work better? As it stood, the best of the Gibson were the 57s, though I also liked the neck BB Pro. 

Imo, an extra £20 on a used set of BKPs is more than fair. The new prices are tougher to justify though!!

ICBM

TheGuitarWeasel said:

One could of course hang on for Gibson to produce a 'new more authentic' PAF alike ... obviously more authentic than the one they made last year ... which was supposed to be the most authentic ever (which was more authentic than the one they made two years before)  
;-)

It would be easier for them if they hadn't sold their original winding machine to a Mr. Seymour Duncan, who apparently uses it to make some pickups called Antiquities with the right kind of bobbin material and wire and everything...

That is, if you don't think any of the several top-quality UK-made PAF-type pickups are close enough, which they probably are!

The real problem here is that it's a real rabbit hole - there are probably more "authentic" PAF copies made than any other type of pickup.

For what it's worth I don't like Burstbuckers (any number) in a Les Paul, I think they sound thin and lack punch. They did sound great in a friend's '67-style Flying V though.

OilCityPickups

ICBM said:

TheGuitarWeasel said:

One could of course hang on for Gibson to produce a 'new more authentic' PAF alike ... obviously more authentic than the one they made last year ... which was supposed to be the most authentic ever (which was more authentic than the one they made two years before)  
;-)

It would be easier for them if they hadn't sold their original winding machine to a Mr. Seymour Duncan, who apparently uses it to make some pickups called Antiquities with the right kind of bobbin material and wire and everything...

That is, if you don't think any of the several top-quality UK-made PAF-type pickups are close enough, which they probably are!

The real problem here is that it's a real rabbit hole - there are probably more "authentic" PAF copies made than any other type of pickup.

For what it's worth I don't like Burstbuckers (any number) in a Les Paul, I think they sound thin and lack punch. They did sound great in a friend's '67-style Flying V though.

Firstly, It's interesting that more than one manufacturer claims to have gibson's old machines :-) Secondly that assumes pickups created on these old machines are somehow unique and that copying the patterns created by old Leesonas is impossible with modern technology (which it isn't ... just difficult). 

Secondly the right bobbins, keeper bars etc etc have been commercially available from USA pickup hardware suppliers for several years, using the correct steel etc etc. As for wire, there is a great deal of bullshit talked about that, there is basically one manufacturer left of proper, vintage spec PVA plain enamel wire. This is were every PAF maker I know of gets his supplies, though it may be through a different wholesaler.

Thirdly there is no such thing as an definitive PAF, because Gibson's quality control at the time meant that a lot of very different output/ winding offset, and magnet choice pickups went out bearing that label. 

It is really all about putting pretty easily available bits together in the right combination and with a spec that sounds 'right' compared to the generally acceptable cookie cutter PAF tone. I simply find it odd that other manufacturers seem to be able to do it better than Gibson themselves.   

ICBM

I agree . Sorry, I should have put more smileys in that post…

For example, I can't see any reason why the type of plastic for the bobbins could make any difference, if the dimensions are correct - it cannot interact with the magnetic field in any way.

I do think it's funny how people seem to get so obsessed about tiny differences between pickups which all sound very close to the same, when the originals varied quite a lot. It also drastically depends on the guitar they're going in, as proved by the Burstbuckers in the V.

OilCityPickups

ICBM said:

I agree . Sorry, I should have put more smileys in that post…

For example, I can't see any reason why the type of plastic for the bobbins could make any difference, if the dimensions are correct - it cannot interact with the magnetic field in any way.

I do think it's funny how people seem to get so obsessed about tiny differences between pickups which all sound very close to the same, when the originals varied quite a lot. It also drastically depends on the guitar they're going in, as proved by the Burstbuckers in the V.

It's reducing feedback that gives the edge to butyrate bobbins ... they are solid, where as modern bobbins have huge air gaps inside. They make it an easier proposition to leave pickups unpotted but still keep a resistance to squeal. If modern plastic bobbins are made solid they are exactly the same sonically. Hence it is easier to make a more 'open' sounding pickup with the butyrate bobbins we have commercially available. :-)

I agree about this daft obsession ... but people want what they want ... there's seldom much reason in it other than chasing dreams. 

crunchman

Going back to the original topic, the MHS pickups that come in the Gibson ES guitars now are really good.  Not sure if they are sold separately though.

Funkfingers

Any takers for the theory that the presence or absence of the carbon black pigment in vintage Gibson/HPI humbucker bobbins alters the sound of the completed pickup?

Funkfingers

TheGuitarWeasel said:

I agree about this daft obsession ... but people want what they want ... there's seldom much reason in it other than chasing dreams. 

It is not as if the nit-pickin', cork-sniffin' pickup specifications are the only factor in how an electric guitar is going to sound.

I am the custodian of a fugly vintage Gibson student model electric guitar. This is equipped with one single coil pickup and two controls. Roll off the tone pot about a third of the way, plug into an overdriven valve amplifier and this plank sounds like I would wish a Les Paul Junior to sound. I suspect that the elderly mahogany may have some influence on this.

If the wood has little going for it, no amount of money spent on replacement pickups is going to cure that. 

Every once in a while, it is possible to get lucky. Crappy wood and crappy pickups can add up to a surprisingly good slide guitar.

OilCityPickups

Funkfingers said:

TheGuitarWeasel said:

I agree about this daft obsession ... but people want what they want ... there's seldom much reason in it other than chasing dreams. 

If the wood has little going for it, no amount of money spent on replacement pickups is going to cure that. 

Every once in a while, it is possible to get lucky. Crappy wood and crappy pickups can add up to a surprisingly good slide guitar.

I subscribe to that totally ... polishing a turd simply results in a polished turd ... 
And to me the best slide guitars are often the most crude, basic, and pretty much crappy ones.