Turning a modern LP more vintage.

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AdamskiAdamski Frets: 1278
Howdy all, 

I've had a troublesome past with Les Pauls. A studio, a 90's standard, a '58 reissue and a 2016 standard have all come and gone and I've never really bonded with any of them. Today I picked up a lovely 2017 Traditional in heritage cherry at a really good deal and I am very happy with it (so far!). I love the neck, the playability is great and crucially to me, it's 8.5lbs, which for a non-weight relieved Trad is bloody brilliant. 

So why do I wanna change it? Well currently I don't, or am not in any great rush to but I know down the line I will probably wanna do things like change out the electronics, hardware and PUPs for something more in line with the historic range and I feel this will help me make MY perfect Lester and stop the chopping and changing. So with that in mind, where should I start? I'd really like some good suggestions on the most vintage correct gear at decent prices - for instance I'm probably not gonna chuck some £500 Throbaks on it but I could stick some OX4's in. 

Cheers! 
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Comments

  • RMJRMJ Frets: 1274
    You've had a 58 reissue. Surely that is where you will end up with the mods you're talking about? What didn't you like about the 58? May help with suggestions of what to change on the traditional.

    I have a 2013 traditional that I love. The only thing I'd consider changing are the speed knobs and truss cover so it looks more authentic.
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  • AdamskiAdamski Frets: 1278
    RMJ said:
    You've had a 58 reissue. Surely that is where you will end up with the mods you're talking about? What didn't you like about the 58? May help with suggestions of what to change on the traditional.

    I have a 2013 traditional that I love. The only thing I'd consider changing are the speed knobs and truss cover so it looks more authentic.
    I didn't like the neck, was too fat for me in the end after kidding myself it wasn't. This trad sits somewhere between a 50's and 60's by the feel of it - similar to Gibsons custom V2 neck profile. So the bare bones are perfect, guess I just wanna get the rest of it more like a reissue would be, which is achievable. 
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  • EpsilonEpsilon Frets: 600
    If I would recommend one mod, it would always be 50s wiring and new Bare Knuckle capacitors on the pots. Absolutely transforms the sound.
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  • AdamskiAdamski Frets: 1278
    Epsilon said:
    If I would recommend one mod, it would always be 50s wiring and new Bare Knuckle capacitors on the pots. Absolutely transforms the sound.
    I think a 50's rewire and either some Mules or OX4's (probably those) are first on the agenda. 
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  • OilCityPickupsOilCityPickups Frets: 9983
    edited September 2017 tFB Trader
    50s rewire ... pickups of your choice ... but caps (once they reach a certain quality) are pretty much all the same ... and I'm the first to admit that, although I sell my own PIO caps. 
    Professional pickup winder, horse-testpilot and recovering Chocolate Hobnob addict.
    Formerly TheGuitarWeasel ... Oil City Pickups  ... Oil City Blog 7 String.org profile and message  

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  • EmielEmiel Frets: 212
    If I may add to this discussion rather late...

    I've modded all of my guitars to make them sound more like the guitars from the '50s and '60s. For me the biggest tonal difference is due to the materials used for the hardware. Your LP Traditional does have zinc hardware, the hardware on the originals were made of steel (and an alumnium bridge).

    Steel will make your guitar much more resonant and the guitar will get more open and brighter too. So a swap to more 'vintage-correct' hardware is where I'd start. Pickups, pots etc are more like the icing on the cake for me.
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  • If you have the patience, you could wait a few years and the guitar will become vintage all on it's own.  Magic.
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  • 57Deluxe57Deluxe Frets: 7329
    your answer is in the amp that you use with it!
    <Vintage BOSS Upgrades>
    __________________________________
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  • AdamskiAdamski Frets: 1278
    57Deluxe said:
    your answer is in the amp that you use with it!
    Don't think so, the Burstbuckers are strangely quite hot for pickups that are supposedly lowish wind. The neck pickup is also a little muddy. Weight, neck, resonance, sustain and playability are spot on though so I'm sure a pickup change along with a bridge change will make the difference. 

    For reference my amps are - 
    Bogner Shiva 20th head and cab 
    friedman Pink Taco 
    Fender Deluxe reverb 

    so a good mix 

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  • sweepysweepy Frets: 4158
    I fitted a pair of OX4 pickups and Jupiter Yellow caps to my 2012 Trad, massive improvement all round 
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  • zepp76zepp76 Frets: 2534
    sweepy said:
    I fitted a pair of OX4 pickups and Jupiter Yellow caps to my 2012 Trad, massive improvement all round 
    I have a pair of OX4's in my '04 standard, they are fantastic pickups.
    Tomorrow will be a good day.
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  • clarkefanclarkefan Frets: 808
    edited September 2017
    Emiel said:
    If I may add to this discussion rather late...

    I've modded all of my guitars to make them sound more like the guitars from the '50s and '60s. For me the biggest tonal difference is due to the materials used for the hardware. Your LP Traditional does have zinc hardware, the hardware on the originals were made of steel (and an alumnium bridge).

    Steel will make your guitar much more resonant and the guitar will get more open and brighter too. So a swap to more 'vintage-correct' hardware is where I'd start. Pickups, pots etc are more like the icing on the cake for me.
    This.  To add to it, the mounting posts and inserts on the 50s originals were not just steel they were deeper in the wood than a lot of recent models.  Can't remember the details but they were like 1.5 inches if the current versions are an inch.

    Back when I was paying attention to this stuff the LPs had the right depth holes drilled in the wood but the inserts and bolts didn't go as deep.  Worth checking out.
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  • DanielsguitarsDanielsguitars Frets: 3261
    edited September 2017 tFB Trader
    Vintage studs are 1 inch for a les paul standard

    I even went mad on a limba special style build with 1 1/4 inch bushings

    Current historic versions are 7/8 or something like that, don't hold me to that as I barely remember what day of the week it is 
    I know you have to drill deeper to fit vintage bushings though


    www.danielsguitars.co.uk
    (formerly customkits)
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  • Thanks, I couldn't remember the details.  But I remember it's worth measuring the depth because a lot of LPs (maybe historics only, just can't remember) had the correct depth already drilled.  Not that the extra depth is a big deal to get drilled.
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  • photekphotek Frets: 1462
    edited September 2017
    If you have the patience, you could wait a few years and the guitar will become vintage all on it's own.  Magic.
    Nope, two guitars sat in front of me, both over 20 years old and despite being gigged regularly look pretty much new.
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  • bodhibodhi Frets: 1334
    edited September 2017
    The Faber hardware is a nice upgrade over the stock Gibson USA stuff.  I'd add the Faber iNsert kit conversion bridge studs and their tailpiece Tone Lock kit to @streethawk's list above, if I was upgrading.

    I have one of @photek's old guitars which was upgraded with Faber hardware and it's killer.  Played it for 4 hours last night.

    This guitar also has "Vintage" PAFs from Mojo Pickups, which I really like.  I don't know how they compare to OX4's, but I like them for what they are.  At the very least they're a great combination with my amp.



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  • AdamskiAdamski Frets: 1278
    Thanks all, 

    Interestingly, looking at the Gibson Spec sheet for the 2017 traditional, it seems on the face of it that it has some of these features already - "handwired the way it was in the 50's" is quite a vague statement though so I wonder if anyone could have a look for me and get through he Gibson marketing gumpf. 
    http://www.gibson.com/Products/Electric-Guitars/2017/USA/Les-Paul-Traditional.aspx


    Cheers 

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  • bodhibodhi Frets: 1334
    This might help?

    http://www.harmonycentral.com/articles/what-makes-a-les-paul-traditional-guitar-traditional

    Maybe they're just referring to the caps being used.  I take any Gibson marketing gumpf with a liberal pinch of salt.

    There's also a school of thought about not messing with something which isn't broken, mind you.  For example, I bought a lovely '05 Standard Faded from a forum member not long ago, and it's all stock.  It plays and sounds great and while I bought it with the preconception of I'm going to have to upgrade pickups, hardware, and electronics, it's so nice that I've not done that in case I spoil it in some unforeseen way.

    The reason being that I also have a 2011 Les Paul Traditional, which I upgraded when I got it, and it was my favourite guitar for a long time.  Then I recently kind of re-upgraded it and sent it in for a setup.  When it came back, the magic was a little bit gone - I'm still tweaking away at it to try and get it back to the way it was.  I should have just left it alone.
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