Has the boutique bubble burst??

Teetonetal

Can only speak for myself but I found the amps for me, the Brunetti Pleximan and Singleman respectively. So no amp GAS for over a year now. 

Pedals is a bit different, but I've come to the view that almost all boutique pedals offer nothing worth paying over the odds for. A few companies making genuinely interesting stuff, that offers something new (eg Chase Bliss' digital control) etc, but in the main that market is over rated.

hotpickups

For me the only real reason I'd ever go digital I.e. Kemper would be for weight issues. I love my valve amps but they do weigh and the older I get the thought of shifting them to and fro from a gig as wel as all the other stuff dies get a bit daunting But for now I'll live with it  

xpia98jf

fretfinder said:

Interesting observation. The used market is definitely depressed overall, probably more for high-end gear than other stuff. And some of those boutique brands are very expensive new, even more so now thanks to Brexit leavers and the pound/ dollar rate of exchange.

I also think sometimes seller prices are too high for used gear - understandably it's hard to stomach that you've just dropped a grand or more on that amp which you were convinced was 'the one' when you tried it in the shop. Everything will sell at the right price though, and people on here who really want to sell generally reduce the price bit by bit and sure enough it goes eventually.

So, personally I don't think that boutique amps are having a lull or becoming less desirable, I think it's more the depressed market combined with some unrealistic asking prices. 

Personally I don't think there's that many unrealistic asking prices for boutique amps at the moment. If anything I'd say it was the other way round - there are some serious bargains to be had.
 
Of course there are still the odd chancers - there always will be.  If you're selling a highly prized amp in good nick  (mentioning no names vintage Fender Princeton silverface) and it's been listed for a good while with no buyers, there's probably a reason for that and it's not a 'depressed market'.

fandango

clarkefan said:

I think it's a combination of getting caught up in; loads of people on the internet saying how amazeballs an amp is, not trying stuff yourself, tying up vast amounts of cash you think you can afford, then trying to sell when panic sets in.

It's human nature to think it must be amazing if loads of people say it is, we're all "guilty" of it.  Takes a couple of baths before it dawns on you that the "extra 5 percent" isn't actually worth the extra 2 grand over a Marshall or Fender to you personally. Ditto guitars, etc.

This. Extra 5% thing. So true.

But to you Kemper owners/users, how much do you play with the settings? Is there something that obliges you to constantly experiment with a Kemper? Do you stop fiddling once you've found 'that' sound? What proportion of time do you spend adjusting settings to playing?

Modulus_Amps

boutique: a business serving a sophisticated or specialized clientele.

Maybe there is a lack of sophisticated and specialized clientele at the moment.....

Who determines the latest craze, the magazines? or TGP or TFB or JB... whatever happens there will always be GAS and some guy on a stage coaxing great tones from valves amps or valve amp simulators, if the market is too flooded the weak ones will die off thining out the heard. (see what I did there)

guitarfishbay

fandango said:

clarkefan said:

I think it's a combination of getting caught up in; loads of people on the internet saying how amazeballs an amp is, not trying stuff yourself, tying up vast amounts of cash you think you can afford, then trying to sell when panic sets in.

It's human nature to think it must be amazing if loads of people say it is, we're all "guilty" of it.  Takes a couple of baths before it dawns on you that the "extra 5 percent" isn't actually worth the extra 2 grand over a Marshall or Fender to you personally. Ditto guitars, etc.

This. Extra 5% thing. So true.

But to you Kemper owners/users, how much do you play with the settings? Is there something that obliges you to constantly experiment with a Kemper? Do you stop fiddling once you've found 'that' sound? What proportion of time do you spend adjusting settings to playing?

As an Axe FX user - as little as possible time spent tweaking.

impmann

I think this is a reflection on the way sales happen these days.

A lot of brands get huge hype on line, with 'perceived wisdom' being that these new products are the answer to every prayer/problem. There are carefully crafted videos demoing the equipment, usually in isolation with very clever post production EQ/Compression etc added to make everything sound epic. So GAS is created, the need is established and so folks go out and order these "must have" pieces of equipment.

A little time goes by and the realisation starts to dawn that whilst there is little denying that the new piece of equipment is good, it isn't *quite* perfect. A few negative niggles are reported online and the feeling of "yeah, its OK but..." starts.

Then the next piece of "must have" equipment comes along, with another carefully crafted campaign to create need/want. So the older item is then jettisoned to pay for the next "must have" item.

And the cycle repeats.

Beexter

guitarfishbay said:

fandango said:

clarkefan said:

I think it's a combination of getting caught up in; loads of people on the internet saying how amazeballs an amp is, not trying stuff yourself, tying up vast amounts of cash you think you can afford, then trying to sell when panic sets in.

It's human nature to think it must be amazing if loads of people say it is, we're all "guilty" of it.  Takes a couple of baths before it dawns on you that the "extra 5 percent" isn't actually worth the extra 2 grand over a Marshall or Fender to you personally. Ditto guitars, etc.

This. Extra 5% thing. So true.

But to you Kemper owners/users, how much do you play with the settings? Is there something that obliges you to constantly experiment with a Kemper? Do you stop fiddling once you've found 'that' sound? What proportion of time do you spend adjusting settings to playing?

As an Axe FX user - as little as possible time spent tweaking.

Another Fractal user here (AX8) and this is just one of the things I love about it. Most of the modelled amps sound great from the off. I apply hi/low cuts to the cab IRs and just tweak the bass, mid,treble settings from the dedicated "amp" controls on top of the AX8 to get a great sound with minimal tweaking. You can go into ludicrous levels of detail but I've never felt the need.
Getting back to the OP, I think the latest gen. modellers/ profilers  like AxeFX, Helix and Kemper have had an impact on traditional amps - the sound quality and convenience are seriously good now and give you access to "amps" that many would never get to experience in the real world, especially in the "boutique " sector. My 2 valve amps get very little use now as the AX8 works just as well at bedroom levels as it does at gigs/ rehearsals.
I would still like to have a valve amp around but I'm being picky and have yet to find "the one"
Given it's likely limited use, I'd find it hard to justify spending more than £1300, given that's the rough market value of my two existing amp heads and cab.
I'd ideally like a handwired combo as I'd want it to be a long term ownership prospect and therefore easily serviceable and repairable down the line. This requirement is likely to lead me down the "boutique" route and certainly the used market.
I agree that there are a number of quality amps for sale here but some have been for sale for the best part of a year. Prices on the whole seem reasonable from a buyer's perspective but they are still too high for a "punt" unless they are EXACTLY what you think you are looking for. 

If the price is right and there is the right buyer looking for it, they'll sell. If not, you keep waiting for "the" buyer or tempt others with a price that means they'll take a chance.

crunchman

impmann said:

I think this is a reflection on the way sales happen these days.

A lot of brands get huge hype on line, with 'perceived wisdom' being that these new products are the answer to every prayer/problem. There are carefully crafted videos demoing the equipment, usually in isolation with very clever post production EQ/Compression etc added to make everything sound epic. So GAS is created, the need is established and so folks go out and order these "must have" pieces of equipment.

A little time goes by and the realisation starts to dawn that whilst there is little denying that the new piece of equipment is good, it isn't *quite* perfect. A few negative niggles are reported online and the feeling of "yeah, its OK but..." starts.

Then the next piece of "must have" equipment comes along, with another carefully crafted campaign to create need/want. So the older item is then jettisoned to pay for the next "must have" item.

And the cycle repeats.

I may be the exception here, but that's not always the case.  I got my Lazy J when Jesse Hoff was doing repairs in Chandlers.  There was no internet hype at all at that point.  The guys in the shop just called it a "Jesse amp".    I just bought it because there was one in the shop and it sounded great.  In the early days it was all word of mouth in Chandlers.

The magazine reviews and the hype started a year or two later.

That was 10 years or so ago, and there weren't the Youtube videos around back then.  I'm still using it now - although the Kemper gets an awful lot of use as well.

Maybe I'm old school but I still like to try stuff for myself and not just go on internet hype.  I saw all the (deserved) hype on here for the Thorpy drive pedals, and watched several Youtube videos of them but it was trying out a Fallout Cloud at the Guitar Show that convinced me that I wanted one.  Lots of hints to my wife and I duly got one for my birthday.  Even with the Kemper I borrowed one for a weekend before buying.

Dave_Mc

Pablo said:

bbill335 said:

ICBM said:

There are only so many ways you can re-invent the same wheel.

I'm surprised there hasn't been more "deinvention". No-nonsense cheaply built amps with classic voicing. Like the joyo tweed deluxe that never seemed to take off. 

Imagine if someone did an MIC blackface deluxe clone with one channel, no tremolo, cheap transformers, call it the "sparkle sixties" or something else dumb. If you could do that for ~400 I'm sure you'd dent HRDx sales. 

Isn't this what VHT tried with the special 6 and the 12/20? They didn't seem to take off the way Jet City did. Maybe Soldano's name helped with marketing?

I remember a while back on Ultimate Guitar, a forum regular there (from the UK) who worked in a guitar shop for a little while said that they stocked Jet City and they didn't sell at all. "Soldano- who?" was the usual response from customers in the shop who tried them. I've been guilty of it too myself for some time, but we need to remember that something which is popular or well-known on niche online forums is often really obscure in the real world.

Plus with regards to VHT, @Dodge is spot-on. They sound very good for the price point but the QC was spotty- my first one was faulty, sent it back to be repaired, it wasn't, and eventually got a replacement- not sure if it was VHT or Thomann who attempted that repair, though... but I was pretty miffed, IIRC they basically swapped a preamp tube, which I'd already tried and which hadn't worked... and trying the thing for 5 seconds would have told them it hadn't worked.

Anyway, I've seen a lot of QC complaints on TGP and similar places, too.

57Deluxe

Strat in Boutique Bubble Burst

http://c8.alamy.com/comp/DR2N7A/a-cola-bubble-background-pattern-with-a-rock-guitar-superimposed-DR2N7A.jpg

pluckbuddy

Fender have entered the boutique market again with their new 64 deluxe reverb. So their marketing people must be thinking/hoping there are some opportunities globally at this time. 

They are late to the game with the cloners and may pay for it if the market has changed since they first put together a business plan for that project. Or maybe they figure that the market is different for them as they can rely on a large amount of buyers who 'just want a fender'.

ICBM

pluckbuddy said:

Fender have entered the boutique market again with their new 64 deluxe reverb.

But a Fender cannot be boutique no matter how well-made they are, because they are "corporate" "big business" and "mass-produced".



Which reminds me to ask - when people are talking about 'boutique' here or elsewhere, do they mean genuinely small companies like RiftAmps, MJW etc who are true one-man builders and still assemble more or less everything by hand, or do they mean the mass-produced amps and pedals which despite having dozens of different names on them, all come out of the same giant factory in (I think) California? Because those are not actually 'boutique' other than in marketing terms - they're at least as mass-produced as a Fender.

Lebarque

Which reminds me to ask - when people are talking about 'boutique' here or elsewhere, do they mean genuinely small companies like RiftAmps, MJW etc who are true one-man builders and still assemble more or less everything by hand, or do they mean the mass-produced amps and pedals which despite having dozens of different names on them, all come out of the same giant factory in (I think) California? Because those are not actually 'boutique' other than in marketing terms - they're at least as mass-produced as a Fender.

Nah, just f****** expensive ones.

RiftAmps

ICBM said:

pluckbuddy said:

Fender have entered the boutique market again with their new 64 deluxe reverb.

But a Fender cannot be boutique no matter how well-made they are, because they are "corporate" "big business" and "mass-produced".



Which reminds me to ask - when people are talking about 'boutique' here or elsewhere, do they mean genuinely small companies like RiftAmps, MJW etc who are true one-man builders and still assemble more or less everything by hand, or do they mean the mass-produced amps and pedals which despite having dozens of different names on them, all come out of the same giant factory in (I think) California? Because those are not actually 'boutique' other than in marketing terms - they're at least as mass-produced as a Fender.

Not forgetting all those that come out of Straight Edge here in the UK

I personally don't like the word Boutique to describe what I do, but I guess by one definition my business is exactly that.

EDIT: Not that it ultimately matters of course, the only thing that does is good tone.

jonnyburgo

I think in general over the past few yrs second hand prices on here have gone up,  for instance 3 yrs ago Baja Teles were changing hand at around £375 and SG standards were regularly £500, and faded SG around £350. But as stated above, new prices have gone up so swings and roundabouts really.

pluckbuddy

ICBM said:

pluckbuddy said:

Fender have entered the boutique market again with their new 64 deluxe reverb.

But a Fender cannot be boutique no matter how well-made they are, because they are "corporate" "big business" and "mass-produced".



Which reminds me to ask - when people are talking about 'boutique' here or elsewhere, do they mean genuinely small companies like RiftAmps, MJW etc who are true one-man builders and still assemble more or less everything by hand, or do they mean the mass-produced amps and pedals which despite having dozens of different names on them, all come out of the same giant factory in (I think) California? Because those are not actually 'boutique' other than in marketing terms - they're at least as mass-produced as a Fender.

Ok I may have missed the mark somewhat in that definition of boutique. Fender is surely trying to compete with some of the boutique market though that makes a (small to medium sized) business out of cloning Fender's old amps. Might not be the same size company but is a similar product and similar price point to the boutique guys. So I understood the OP to be about whether the boutique market was flagging, I thought it was interesting that the biggest of music company had entered that market (in my opinion) at this time.

Can't answer your question though!

Rox

Rather than Boutique, perhaps they're Reproduction and Reinvention Specialists.  They're reproducing (and reinventing) vintage mass-produced designs for the modern market.  When Fender do so, they're simply reissuing old designs...

Chalky

Many secondhand guitar prices have edged upwards, but secondhand amp prices, especially boutique, are tumbling. And the majority of secondhand boutique amps priced over £1000 simply won't sell at that price. They need to drop below £1000 and I'll think we'll see more price dropping through this autumn and winter.

olafgarten

Chalky said:

Many secondhand guitar prices have edged upwards, but secondhand amp prices, especially boutique, are tumbling. And the majority of secondhand boutique amps priced over £1000 simply won't sell at that price. They need to drop below £1000 and I'll think we'll see more price dropping through this autumn and winter.

It's tough pricing used items. What is the general consensus for the price of a used amp in good condition? Not only boutique but even for something you can buy new tomorrow.