Setting up a guitar...

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CirrusCirrus Frets: 8481
... is something I've never even thought about, until now.

My Explorer was set up when I had the pickups changed by a tech in 2008. I didn't express any preference there, so it was just set up however the tech likes.

My Strat was bought from a place in Warwick in 2002. Did they set it up? Was it just as it came from the factory? I don't know. I did change the saddles in 2009 when I noticed they were getting a bit rusty, and adjusted the intonation then, though I don't put any faith in my 2009 self doing a great job.

Since then, they've mostly lived in a band lockup, in all seasons. Used regularly, but equally spending a lot of time sitting in occasionally cold, damp rooms.

So I decided to have a go at setting them up. How hard could it be?

The Strat got a much needed new Trem to replace the rusty MIM standard one, and that was an improvement right off the bat but it took a good couple of hours for me to work out the balance of trem plate pivot point (I started off with the screws too tight), how much I wanted it to float, then the knock on from that, getting the action set with the saddles then adjusting for intonation. Also ended up adjusting the truss rod a to get a little more relief in the neck. And, though at some point it does need a fret job after 15 years of use, I think it plays much better now. I discovered I like the action a bit higher - bends are easier because the other strings don't roll under your fretting finger, for one. And I use 11s and have a fairly heavy right hand, so I guess the extra space means the strings are free to vibrate more.

The Explorer was easier. When I first picked it up after the strat I noticed just how much fret buzz their was. It doesn't really come through an amp, but suddenly I felt like the power I was putting in with my right hand was getting stifled. Again, gave the neck a little more relief (it was dead flat), raised the bridge, adjusted the intonation... And felt like I could hit the thing and feel it giving back to me.

Through the process, I discovered 2 riffs that came in handy;

- REM's "The One I Love" to check I could deliver power across all the strings down at the bottom of the neck
- The Killer's "Mr Brightside" to check the intonation, since it's got a relatively complex chord, high up the neck, and includes open strings.

Of course, I'll probably hate it all next week.   =)

So, besides the typical "gather round the fireplace and listen to my drivel" Cirrus post, two questions for you.

1; I've ended up with about 1.7mm relief at the 12th fret on the high side, and 1.9mm at the low side.... measured with a 5 and 10p coin slid under the unfretted strings respectively. Does that sound... ok? Have I done anything insane?

2; How do you like your guitars set up, do you do them yourself, do you have any particular tricks, techniques etc to share?
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Comments

  • RolandRoland Frets: 8590
    1. Yes, it sounds OK. No, you're not insane. You can set up the guitar with lower action, which might suit a different style of playing, but you've found the action height which suits you.

    2. I spend most of my time playing between the 3rd and 12th fret positions. I like my neck set up with a slight concave bend so that the action appears to increase steadily until about the 9th fret, and is then parallel. It isn't actually like that if you measure it, but when you balance action, fretboard radius etc it feels like it. On a Tele my action at the 12th is about 1.7mm for the low E, and 1.5 for the high E. The bass side is determined by the clearance I need to let the low E vibrate cleanly. The treble side to allow me to get sufficient attack with a hammer-on. On a humbucker guitar, where attack is less important part of the sound than with single coils, I'll have the treble side action a bit lower.
    Tree recycler, and guitarist with  https://www.undercoversband.com/.
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  • I bookmarked this comment by @ICBM, which is probably the most concise and useful summary I have come across of how to do a setup.
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  • I'll type a more detailed reply when I get time... but the short answer is I now do it all by feel, every instrument has a different 'best setup' according to multiple factors including the playing style. (Not helpful yet, but someone else will beat me to a better answer)

    I used to be really in to the measurements approach and had no idea how someone like @ICBM could advocate doing it all by feel, but as with most things guitar related, over time I found out he was right.

    Don't overlook nut height either - that's a big factor many ignore based on lack of tools

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  • guitarfishbayguitarfishbay Frets: 7953
    edited September 2017
    Ok well looking at the post linked above there's not a lot to add really other than just some observations about how I do it.

    I tend to aim for the best compromise between a feel I like and a sound I like.  As you'll know, the string clearance and overall rigidity of the setup does impact on the response of the strings (and tone).

    Since I tend to like a tighter feel, I like to experiment with lower tailpieces on Gibsons - the lower the better IME.

    On any bolt on, if it's viable I like to try a shim at the bridge end of the neck, just a piece of cut out business card.  Then raise the saddles to compensate.  This achieves a similar thing - causes the response of the string to be tighter to bends (and if you think about it, heavy pick attack is causing the string to bend slightly, as can be heard in the pitch).  I've also got a heavy picking hand and I just prefer being able to dig in without it feeling like it's flubby.

    It's all a fine balancing act and the idea is to keep going until there's an optimum kind of playing feel.  I don't actually worry too much about perfectly matching saddle heights to the radius anymore either, on guitars with individual saddles.  They do pretty much end there, but I do it by feel as a microturn on the saddle height can be the difference in the string feeling good, too stiff, or too loose.  I tend to dial in the low strings mostly with heavy picking and powerchords, and the higher strings with a lot of bending and vibrato, in terms of determining the final feel.

    In general, I think my electrics are all roughly 2mm on the bass side and 1.5+mm on the treble.  And I try to get the necks as straight as they can go while still sounding good.  However they all like different things - my Singlecut seems to respond best with a really straight neck, with hardly any relief at all.  None of my other guitars can be set up this way, all needing varying amounts of additional relief, but as little as possible in all cases.  

    The actions do vary slightly, some guitars are more prone to fret buzz than others.  I like to have enough clearance that the tone is good but no more, as a guitar that's unnecessarily difficult to play doesn't make any sense.  Plus it's possible that the intonation will suffer with an overly bowed neck and high action.  To me fret buzz is only an issue if it sounds bad through an amp.

    Really the nut height is very important to setup, and if you don't already own nut files I'd recommend them as a good investment.  I've never bought a guitar that came with a nut filed as low as it could go - there aren't any tonal disadvantages to the nut being cut low so long as there's clearance for it to not be hitting the fret.  But with a nut cut as low as possible you'll get a better feel on the lower frets.

    With regards to pickup height my workflow is to start with the most important sound and work from there.  There's always a compromise with pickup heights.  So for me bridge is most important - I set that where it sounds good first.  Then I find a balance where the other pickups also sound good.  If on a 2 pickup guitar I preferred the middle sound to the neck sound, then I'd set the neck pickup height so the middle sound was optimal, if that makes sense.  When I've owned Telecasters in the past that's how I've set them up.  With H/H guitars I'm more likely to use the bridge or neck, so I'm less worried about the in between sound.
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  • ricorico Frets: 1220
    Are you definitely referring to the relief in your original post? Relief is usually in the region of fractions of a millimetre. 
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  • CirrusCirrus Frets: 8481
    rico said:
    Are you definitely referring to the relief in your original post? Relief is usually in the region of fractions of a millimetre. 
    The measurements I gave at the end were for the action between the unfretted string and the 12th fret, not the relief as I idiotically typed. When I fret the 1st and 17th fret on the g-string, there's probably slightly more than the thickness of the g string between the string and the 7th fret.
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  • Sounds like you've done well. Anything between about 1.2mm to 2.2mm at the 12th fret I would consider a "normal" range of action.

    Just make sure you adjust your pickup height after changing the action, mostly to check that they're not too close to the strings which will cause problems.
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  • NelsonPNelsonP Frets: 3347
    Generally speaking if I do anything other than adjust the pickup height I get a buzzy, rattly hard to play mess. I also find that once I start tinkering myself I can't stop. So I leave it to the experts.

    Having said that one trick that i like is to set the action to allow a major 3rd bend before choking occurs on the upper frets.

    PS could the riff from Oasis Morning Glory substitute for the REM one?

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  • CirrusCirrus Frets: 8481
    NelsonP said:
    Generally speaking if I do anything other than adjust the pickup height I get a buzzy, rattly hard to play mess. I also find that once I start tinkering myself I can't stop. So I leave it to the experts.

    Having said that one trick that i like is to set the action to allow a major 3rd bend before choking occurs on the upper frets.

    PS could the riff from Oasis Morning Glory substitute for the REM one?

    That's fucking spooky, I'm listening to that track right now, inspired by the Liam Gallagher thread
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  • ricorico Frets: 1220
    Cirrus said:
    rico said:
    Are you definitely referring to the relief in your original post? Relief is usually in the region of fractions of a millimetre. 
    The measurements I gave at the end were for the action between the unfretted string and the 12th fret, not the relief as I idiotically typed. When I fret the 1st and 17th fret on the g-string, there's probably slightly more than the thickness of the g string between the string and the 7th fret.
    Ah that sounds a lot better!
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  • LebarqueLebarque Frets: 3755
    Get Dan Erlewine's book, follow the instructions. Works a treat for me. Great book. 
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  • CirrusCirrus Frets: 8481
    I think the thing I'm most pleased with out of the whole thing is that my strat trem is set so I can do...

    - A semitone bend up on the high E string
    - A tone bend on the B string
    - A 1 1/2 tone bend on the G string

    I didn't know that could be done reliably, was having fun with it last night at practice.
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  • Cirrus said:
    I think the thing I'm most pleased with out of the whole thing is that my strat trem is set so I can do...

    - A semitone bend up on the high E string
    - A tone bend on the B string
    - A 1 1/2 tone bend on the G string

    I didn't know that could be done reliably, was having fun with it last night at practice.

    IIRC the only way to play Jeff Beck's Where Were You is to be able to get a 1 1/2 bend on the G.  IIRC that also corresponds roughly with recommended specs from Fender, but I might be imagining that bit.

    Lovely bit of trem control


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