What am I hearing when....

rlw

I put an OD-3 in front of my new Juketone amp?

The amp arrived yesterday and is a nice bit of kit - well built and sturdy if not quite Kate Beckinsale in the looks department.   And it is very loud; louder than is socially acceptable probably; louder than my 65PRRI oddly enough but better sounding, so....

I played with an OD-3 in front of the amp.  I ended up with the amp on 10, with the drive at half way on the pedal and the level down very low.   It sounded very good but I'm not at all sure what I was listening to - the amp or the pedal?

Turning the amp down and the level up didn't sound so good.

I'm going to try a BD-2 later, and may consider a clean boost but I need to understand what is having the most significant effect on the tone before I commit to anything new.

Also, I'm looking out for a Night Light Junior but these are like hen's teeth.

RiftAmps

Surely by switching off/on the pedal you could hear what it was contributing? Unless I’m missing something?

Cirrus

rlw said:

I played with an OD-3 in front of the amp.  I ended up with the amp on 10, with the drive at half way on the pedal and the level down very low.   It sounded very good but I'm not at all sure what I was listening to - the amp or the pedal?

This is a philosophical question. You might as well ask whether you were listening to the guitar or the speaker.

rlw

RiftAmps said:

Surely by switching off/on the pedal you could hear what it was contributing? Unless I’m missing something?

By switching the pedal off, I was met by the blast of sound a small amp turned up to 10 with two P90s also turned up to 10.

  The pedal was acting as a volume control and to get the with and without pedal sounds at the same level would mean turning the amp right down too, which meant that I would have to turn the pedal up and change the whole scenario - I think.

rlw

Cirrus said:

rlw said:

I played with an OD-3 in front of the amp.  I ended up with the amp on 10, with the drive at half way on the pedal and the level down very low.   It sounded very good but I'm not at all sure what I was listening to - the amp or the pedal?

This is a philosophical question. You might as well ask whether you were listening to the guitar or the speaker.



Kind of, but as they were fixed and only the pedal controls and the amp volume were variable, I'm not so sure.  

Winny_Pooh

The pedal will still affect the tone even with gain all the way down. The OD-3 is similar to the BD-2 so best to try a totally different drive depending what you want. Try a Marshally pedal like a Thorpy Gunshot or such otherwise.

Sassafras

If you've got an EQ pedal you could use that to cut volume.

ICBM

With the amp volume up full, the pedal gain up halfway, the pedal volume very low, and a moderate final volume in the room, the overdriven sound you're hearing is coming from the pedal and not the amp. Turning the pedal off will show why .

A clean boost will do the opposite, you'll need to keep the amp's volume very low in order to push the first valve stage into overdrive and the final volume down.

Don't be worried or embarrassed if you've found that you prefer pedal overdrive to amp overdrive .

p90fool

You're obviously hearing a bit of everything and as @ICBM says, pedal rather than amp overdrive, but you're also hearing the way components interact in very specific ways. 

For example a lot of Tubescreamer types have a distinctly soft midrange when the level control is under unity gain, it becomes noticeably more aggressive just past the tipping point where it's just starting to act as a boost. I'm not talking about pushing an amp hard, it happens even on big amps with massive headroom set very clean. 

Odd things happen when you're using a pedal to "starve" an amp rather than boost it, and it can often make your guitar sit more comfortably in a mix. 

rlw

Thanks all.  I thought that the main thing I must be hearing was the pedal but I wasn't at all sure.   I much prefer the amp overdrive to the pedal overdrive but not at the available volume.  I shall experiment some more tomorrow.

Anyone tried the Yellow Jacket converters?   A change of power valve and subsequent power reduction might be the answer?

ICBM

rlw said:

I thought that the main thing I must be hearing was the pedal but I wasn't at all sure.   I much prefer the amp overdrive to the pedal overdrive but not at the available volume.

In that case there's nothing wrong with your ears .

rlw said:

Anyone tried the Yellow Jacket converters?   A change of power valve and subsequent power reduction might be the answer?

They don't make that much difference to the volume for home use - the amp will still be 'loud', just a bit less so. For gig volumes they can be very effective.

The problem is that even 1W is pretty loud in a house, through any kind of normal decent guitar speaker. To get down to that sort of level or less, you would need to substitute the power valve for something like a 12AU7, and I'm not sure you can get converters to do that. It probably wouldn't sound very much like the full-power sound anyway.

rlw

ICBM said:

rlw said:

I thought that the main thing I must be hearing was the pedal but I wasn't at all sure.   I much prefer the amp overdrive to the pedal overdrive but not at the available volume.

In that case there's nothing wrong with your ears .

rlw said:

Anyone tried the Yellow Jacket converters?   A change of power valve and subsequent power reduction might be the answer?

They don't make that much difference to the volume for home use - the amp will still be 'loud', just a bit less so. For gig volumes they can be very effective.

The problem is that even 1W is pretty loud in a house, through any kind of normal decent guitar speaker. To get down to that sort of level or less, you would need to substitute the power valve for something like a 12AU7, and I'm not sure you can get converters to do that. It probably wouldn't sound very much like the full-power sound anyway.

Well I'm glad that my ears are OK - they won't be after using the amp on 10 for long though......

I think the answer to my problem is probably a bigger house in the middle of nowhere, or just keep experimenting until I find a good setup and gaffer tape it all down..

rico

Attenuator? There's a TPS episode on them. 

kjdowd

rico said:

Attenuator? There's a TPS episode on them. 

Have to say having tried many - and amps with power scaling inc shut badger, tone king sky king and lazy j - I've decided I just don't like them. All seem to muddy the sound of the amp somewhat. 

Master volume has always seemed the preferable solution to me or, as I do now, use modelling for home practice and turn the amp up loud at gigs and rehearsals. 

ICBM

Attenuators can work well, but in my experience better with master volume amps - which I know is counterintuitive. I find it's possible to get a better sound at lower volume than with either method alone, if you don't do it all with one. An attenuator and a pedal is also an option if the amp doesn't have MV. It's also important to find the right attenuator for the amp, which can be a problem given that they're relatively expensive.

I don't like power scaling, it just doesn't sound right to me. Every amp I've ever tried with it that also has a MV has sounded best with the power up full and the MV low, rather than the other way round, and without MV I still prefer an attenuator even given the first thing I said .

rlw

I have asked Coda when they are expecting more of the Night Light Juniors in?    Even toyed with the idea of making an attenuator but I've got enough skills I don't trust to put me off that.

Stupidly, I also sit very close to the amp so I'm going to try putting it a guitar lead's length away today, maybe pointing it at the wall too, rather than at me.....