A question for those with 'good ears'.

DaevidJ

Three-ColourSunburst said:

ThorpyFX said:

You are making a dig with your first sentence. “Ears that are so sensitive”. Looking for a rise from people.

Not at all. In the 'tone wood' thread we had some claiming they could clearly heat differences between different species of wood used to make a solid-body electric guitar, and others saying they heard no difference. It follows that if some have more sensitive hearing than others, than this sensitivity would be expressed in other ways as well, and I wondered if this was the case.

I think you are being disingenuous here as the title also has 'good ears' round inverted commas. I can almost imagine you making the hand guestures as you were typing that....

Sassafras

Three-ColourSunburst said:

ThorpyFX said:

You are making a dig with your first sentence. “Ears that are so sensitive”. Looking for a rise from people.

Not at all. In the 'tone wood' thread we had some claiming they could clearly heat differences between different species of wood used to make a solid-body electric guitar, and others saying they heard no difference. It follows that if some have more sensitive hearing than others, than this sensitivity would be expressed in other ways as well, and I wondered if this was the case.

You're just taking the piss.
What, are you saying people with sensitive hearing have big dicks or are better looking than the cloth-eared?
You're being wilfully patronising, although I expect nothing else from you.

thebreeze

I don't think we should be too hard on Three-ColourSunburst re trolling etc. or be too sensitive to the challenges/points he (and others) put forwards. If he can't have a discussion(s) about guitars and tone on here then where can he?

If it's boring or you find the points too fixed just don't comment anymore?  Like others I'm interested in the science to a point but I'm far more interested in the music and, like life in general, find  science a helpful aid but rarely the complete answer.

the most reverend and preachy thebreeze. 

WezV

Bridgehouse said:

Also, are you on a personal challenge to create the most new threads with the same subject but just very subtly different?

Here's a few more suggestions:

- Does the type of fretwire affect tone?
- Does body shape affect tone?
- Does ambient temperature affect tone?
- Does relative humidity affect tone?
- Does having fat or thin fingers affect tone?
- Does the position of my belt buckle affect tone?
- Can anyone here notice the difference when a pickup is moved by 1mm away from the bridge?
- Does anyone think I should get out a bit more?

I think some of those are worthy of discussion.  Body shape, pickup positioning and the affect of the human playing the bloody thing.

i know humidity and temperature make a difference, most obviously when linked to optimal setup and how that can be compromised by fluctuations in the environment.


Yes.  We should all get out a bit more.



I know I used to be able to identify the common guitar styles by sound alone, and I would get it right 4 out of 5 times. The party trick of my 20's 

My success rate is lower now I am older.

Three-ColourSunburst

ThorpyFX said:

There is literally no point getting in a discussion with you on this subject or any related to guitar tone because you have no doubt already made your mind up and won’t consider any other position. 

I will consider any position that is consistent with the laws of physics and empirical evidence. From everything I have read it seems clear that the idea that the species of wood used to make the body of a solid body guitar affects the timbre of the instrument is not consistent with the laws of physics. Show me a proof of 'tone wood' that is consistent with physics and I will happily accept it.

Still, we all live in the post-modern, post-truth age where - supposedly - there is no such thing as objectivity or truth and everyone can create their own realities. As such I have to accept that a belief in 'tone wood' is perfectly in tune with the times we live in, whilst I am still stuck back in the Enlightenment. 

Bridgehouse

@WezV - I wasn't questioning the merit of discussing it, more the repetition of topics and inability to listen to anyone else's rational arguments.

You are a sensible chap and I'd happily engage in a discussion on any of these topics with you..

Others however...

octatonic

Three-ColourSunburst said:

I saw this illustration on another thread and it caused me to wonder whether those with ears that are so sensitive to the harmonic balance of a given note that they can even tell one type of wood from another also notice the tone of their instrument changing from note to note, as the nodes of the various harmonics in each note played align with the pickup they are using and so do not become part of the signal.

The illustration shows an open string and the 4th harmonic, but the same thing would happen to all the fretted notes and the harmonics they contain. Also, in many more cases the strength of the harmonic, if not lost altogether, would be diminished due to the pickup not aligning with the centre of the node.

Can anyone notice these harmonic variations when playing, or does the guitar seem to have a consistent timbre?

Thanks!

http://www.frudua.com/immagini/4thharmonicen.jpg

ED ROMAN!
IS THAT YOU?

WezV

I know, but I like this forum and live in hope of some sensible conversations in this section.

Legionreturns

Three-ColourSunburst said: I will consider any position that is consistent with the laws of physics and empirical evidence. From everything I have read it seems clear that the idea that the species of wood used to make the body of a solid body guitar affects the timbre of the instrument is not consistent with the laws of physics. Show me a proof of 'tone wood' that is consistent with physics and I will happily accept it. 

Still, we all live in the post-modern, post-truth age where - supposedly - there is no such thing as objectivity or truth and everyone can create their own realities. As such I have to accept that a belief in 'tone wood' is perfectly in tune with the times we live in, whilst I am still stuck back in the Enlightenment. 

That discussion has been done to death elsewhere. 

To paraphrase you: "I will consider any position that I already agree with. I know I'm right and I want the rest of you to admit it"

You sir, are boring me. 

I'm out.

Three-ColourSunburst

DaevidJ said:

Three-ColourSunburst said:

In the 'tone wood' thread we had some claiming they could clearly heat differences between different species of wood used to make a solid-body electric guitar, and others saying they heard no difference. It follows that if some have more sensitive hearing than others, than this sensitivity would be expressed in other ways as well, and I wondered if this was the case.

I think you are being disingenuous here as the title also has 'good ears' round inverted commas. I can almost imagine you making the hand guestures as you were typing that....

That's because I doubt that there is any such variation in the ability of people to perceive differences in timbre on the basis of the wood used, and that those who believe that they can hear a difference are 'listening with their ears' or attributing actual differences to the wood of the instrument when in reality it is due to other factors, such as variability in the manufacture of pickups, pots and so on.

Anyhow, back to the topic. If people can (genuinely) hear variances in timbre due to the varying location of the nodes in relation to the pickups, how is this variance experienced? 

Bridgehouse

WezV said:

I know, but I like this forum and live in hope of some sensible conversations in this section.

It takes two to tango. 

Tell you what. Let's give it a go and see if we get derailed..

I have two observations:
- Since playing bass more I have noticed that my ear has become more accustomed to distinguishing between the fundamental and harmonics
- Do people with perfect pitch notice the harmonics in an instruments tone more acutely?

ThorpyFX

Three-ColourSunburst said:

ThorpyFX said:

There is literally no point getting in a discussion with you on this subject or any related to guitar tone because you have no doubt already made your mind up and won’t consider any other position. 

I will consider any position that is consistent with the laws of physics and empirical evidence. From everything I have read it seems clear that the idea that the species of wood used to make the body of a solid body guitar affects the timbre of the instrument is not consistent with the laws of physics. Show me a proof of 'tone wood' that is consistent with physics and I will happily accept it.

Still, we all live in the post-modern, post-truth age where - supposedly - there is no such thing as objectivity or truth and everyone can create their own realities. As such I have to accept that a belief in 'tone wood' is perfectly in tune with the times we live in, whilst I am still stuck back in the Enlightenment. 

Don't try and patronise me you arrogant arse. FFS your pseudoscience is what is annoying the crap out of people in this thread.

The studies have not been done with regards to specific guitars, mainly because the variables are too varied to make running the experiment quantifiable, that and nobody gives a shit because there is no money in it. 

discussing entropy, energy states and chaos theory in relation to a guitar is bonkers. A guitar isn't a CCD.

you know nothing about my background and yet you allude to the fact that you are fighting the cause for science and I am somehow one of the uneducated believers in myth.trist me you are very wrong here.

lets hear a little of your background so that we can understand what makes you so educated in this field of guitar physics. 

octatonic

Bridgehouse said:

- Do people with perfect pitch notice the harmonics in an instruments tone more acutely?

Yes, it is one of the fundamentals (no pun intended) of perfect pitch.

Three-ColourSunburst

Bridgehouse said:

WezV said:

I know, but I like this forum and live in hope of some sensible conversations in this section.

It takes two to tango. 

Exactly, and if there's one thing that the 'tone wood' thread illustrates, it's that a lot of people enjoy a bloody good argument.

Bridgehouse

octatonic said:

Bridgehouse said:

- Do people with perfect pitch notice the harmonics in an instruments tone more acutely?

Yes, it is one of the fundamentals (no pun intended) of perfect pitch.

Well in that case, I suspect someone with perfect pitch could state whether they think there is a difference in the harmonics associated with different body woods or not then..

Bridgehouse

Three-ColourSunburst said:

Bridgehouse said:

WezV said:

I know, but I like this forum and live in hope of some sensible conversations in this section.

It takes two to tango. 

Exactly, and if there's one thing that the 'tone wood' thread illustrates, it's that a lot of people enjoy a bloody good argument.

I was referring to the fact that both sides of the argument require sensible people for it to be a sensible conversation.

Sassafras

I'm more pissed off by his use of smiley faces after every one of his patronising, insulting and mocking posts. Is it supposed to be endearing?
If so, it's not working.
  

Bridgehouse

Sassafras said:

I'm more pissed off by his use of smiley faces after every one of his patronising, insulting and mocking posts. Is it supposed to be endearing?
If so, it's not working.
  

Calm down dear, it's just a guitar forum

Sassafras

Bridgehouse said:

Sassafras said:

I'm more pissed off by his use of smiley faces after every one of his patronising, insulting and mocking posts. Is it supposed to be endearing?
If so, it's not working.
  

Calm down dear, it's just a guitar forum

Fuck off!

Three-ColourSunburst

ThorpyFX said:

Don't try and patronise me you arrogant arse. FFS your pseudoscience is what is annoying the crap out of people in this thread.

Calm down, Major, I'm not some private forgetting to salute you.

If you think all the papers I have cited are 'pseudoscience' why not write to the authors telling them why they are wrong? Even better why not get some papers published yourself showing how 'tone wood' is real? I look forward to reading them.