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Band Dilemma

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  • ...we're doing a completely pointless gig this weekend that has the worst organisation I've ever seen - but it'll keep you playing with people.
    Thing is, I don't think any gig's pointless (except acoustic ones, because they're boring). The biggest benefit of gigs for original bands is that no song is really ready for recording until it's been gigged at least half a dozen times, IMO.
    We tested our songs at open mic nights, acoustically, before recording. I enjoy acoustic stuff actually. Even if most our songs are fast and moderately heavy they were almost all written on acoustic to begin with. 
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  • CirrusCirrus Frets: 8481
    Of course you are right I just find it so frustrating that so few people want to play originals?!
    gah!!!

      
    I think lots of people want to play originals. Just go and scroll through Joinmyband or Gumtree or Facebook classifieds - endless reams of people who want to be involved with an originals project.

    But look again. Endless reams of people who all want to be involved in an originals project. So if you're in the market, trying to get a project on the go, you're having to compete with almost everyone else. Everyone's got an idea of the kind of thing they're looking for, and they're looking for other musicians that a; match their style (and the only way to know that is to stick to the people who post audio and/or video) b; give off a vibe of being serious/ professional, because who wants to waste time on an unreliable idiot and c; is in a similar position in life in terms of geographical location, transport, life commitments, and finances.

    Between those three things, it begins to get very hard to find the right fit.

    Plus, I suppose, a lot more people want to start their own project than join someone else's.
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  • CirrusCirrus Frets: 8481
     I enjoy acoustic stuff actually.
    If you're free on Saturday, wanna stand in for me?  :# =)
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  • ...we're doing a completely pointless gig this weekend that has the worst organisation I've ever seen - but it'll keep you playing with people.
    Thing is, I don't think any gig's pointless (except acoustic ones, because they're boring). The biggest benefit of gigs for original bands is that no song is really ready for recording until it's been gigged at least half a dozen times, IMO.
    We tested our songs at open mic nights, acoustically, before recording. I enjoy acoustic stuff actually. Even if most our songs are fast and moderately heavy they were almost all written on acoustic to begin with. 
    Oh, I know some people like acoustic gigs. My current band, for example - my problem with them is that, given half a chance, at least 50% of our gigs would be acoustic and that's not remotely a good representation of what we're actually about.
    <space for hire>
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  • CirrusCirrus Frets: 8481
    Thing is, I don't think any gig's pointless (except acoustic ones, because they're boring). The biggest benefit of gigs for original bands is that no song is really ready for recording until it's been gigged at least half a dozen times, IMO.
    I think that can work both ways. Plenty of times we've come up with a tweak in the arrangement that makes a song better after it's been recorded and I've wished we could go back.

    On the other hand, there's something to be said for capturing the moment of spontaneity/ inspiration, while things are by nature still in flux. There are bands I like where the evolution of the song post-recording is a real insight into how they think.
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  • Thing is, I don't think any gig's pointless (except acoustic ones, because they're boring). The biggest benefit of gigs for original bands is that no song is really ready for recording until it's been gigged at least half a dozen times, IMO.
    We tested our songs at open mic nights, acoustically, before recording. I enjoy acoustic stuff actually. Even if most our songs are fast and moderately heavy they were almost all written on acoustic to begin with. 
    Oh, I know some people like acoustic gigs. My current band, for example - my problem with them is that, given half a chance, at least 50% of our gigs would be acoustic and that's not remotely a good representation of what we're actually about.
    No doubt it depends on the band.

    I don't actually see any problem with being about more than one thing anyway.  Having an acoustic set isn't a bad idea if people like it, even if it gets played less.  We do have different parts for the proper acoustic versions though.  Like palm muted powerchords get swapped out for appropriate chord voicings that are strummed, some vocal melodies are different and don't go as high and loud (so as not to over power the acoustic parts).  I enjoy the challenge, helps me write better parts for the electric versions too.
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  • Don't give up. I'm in my late 50s. I write and want to perform what I've written. I realise it won't make money and I won't get lots of gigs, but I want to have some creative fun. Where I live now (Dorset) is covers and blues central - all playing pretty much the same set lists. I've played in lots of covers bands and I will not do it again because I know that..

    a) I stop enjoying it quite quickly and it just becomes a chore
    b) I resent the time it sucks up that stops me making progress on my own stuff

    I spent last year successfully having chemo (which forced me to leave a proggie originals band I was in) and much of this year catching up on life. (Lots of acoustic playing, writing and very little electric guitar practice). I'm just about to start trying to find people again and it will be just as hard as it is for you - but ultimately worth it. 

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  • professorbenprofessorben Frets: 5105
    edited September 2017
    Emp_Fab said:
    TBH I hate playing live, gigs are always stressful events for me, an hours adrenaline onstage bookended by hours of driving, lugging, worrying, analysis, self criticism etc. 

    I just want want to get in a room with a full band write awesome songs and make a noise, I'm willing to compromise by playing live because you have to, to get anyone to join you. 

    But id rather write, record, release and then play decent venues should we get a following. 
    Maybe 5/6 a year. 
    Er....  how do you plan to get a following if you don't want to gig regularly ?
    By rehearsing, writing and recording our own music, releasing that on as many media platforms as possible, then having a select number of gigs that hopefully will be well attended as it's an occasion we are playing. 

    Im sure a lot of bands would struggle to fill a 200 capacity venue if they gig week in week out in their local area. 

    I think the slogging around the toilet circuit is not a thing any more, half the venues have closed down and people just don't regularly attend gigs like they did 10-15 years ago. 

    Take me one of my favourite bands, Caligula's Horse, it's just the singer and Guitarist, they wrote and recorded an album which they self released and garnered enough of a following to warrant recruiting a full band to tour with. 
    " Why does it smell of bum?" Mrs Professorben.
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  • JalapenoJalapeno Frets: 6378
    Unless you need the cash, or require to kick-start your live mojo then Id do as other suggest.  Forget the covers band, maybe offer to dep, focus on programming drums for recording your stuff (maybe have chat with @clarky)
    Imagine something sharp and witty here ......

    Feedback
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  • The rather annoying thing is that I had a fairy reasonable recording set up about two and a half years ago, Protools, Laptop, Interface, all set up in a room etc. 

    Sold it it all to get a killer live rig together so I could join a band again. 


    " Why does it smell of bum?" Mrs Professorben.
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  • The rather annoying thing is that I had a fairy reasonable recording set up about two and a half years ago, Protools, Laptop, Interface, all set up in a room etc. 

    Sold it it all to get a killer live rig together so I could join a band again. 


    Trivial to get going again, though - I presume you have a laptop (pretty much anything these days will be good enough to get started, although you might have to move away from Pro Tools 'cos it's probably the most resource-hungry DAW out there). Interfaces are easy enough, just get something like the Komplete Audio 6 - two preamps, two line inputs and (and two ins on S/PDIF). For recording acoustic drums eventually, just do what we did and dry-hire a local studio (The Den is good for that).

    If your laptop doesn't have high-enough screen resolution, give me a shout...I might be able to help there.
    <space for hire>
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  • ClarkyClarky Frets: 3261

    Ha!! Whilst I can play a bit, I'm nowhere good enough to play the bastard time sigs and changes I write. 
    I can help you with this if you wish
    play every note as if it were your first
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  • ...we're doing a completely pointless gig this weekend that has the worst organisation I've ever seen - but it'll keep you playing with people.
    Thing is, I don't think any gig's pointless (except acoustic ones, because they're boring). The biggest benefit of gigs for original bands is that no song is really ready for recording until it's been gigged at least half a dozen times, IMO.
    this one is with my current band (didn't say it was covers - it's covers) and it is pretty pointless.  Middle of nowhere, miles away and not an opportunity to get any sort of publicity around where we actually live. The venue hasn't promoted the event properly until today, still haven't told us what the other bands are so we don't know if any songs clash, and are still actually looking for bands to play. Plus we don't get paid...well, we get a large bar tab, but seeing as it's a 1 1/2 hour round trip, that's just going to mean a couple of free cokes. Totally take your point for gigging original material, but this is all stuff I can play in my sleep so it's a bit of a drag. I'm half tempted to do the gig on my Casio guitar and see how that pans out.
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  • ClarkyClarky Frets: 3261

    Jalapeno said:
    Unless you need the cash, or require to kick-start your live mojo then Id do as other suggest.  Forget the covers band, maybe offer to dep, focus on programming drums for recording your stuff (maybe have chat with @clarky)
    drum programming [to make sound convincing] is quite an art
    an easy way to get around this is to use loops that some drum plug-ins have
    the upside is that these loops are very good, quick and easy to work with
    the downside is that a library of loops will also have some limitations

    I do all of my drum programming myself and have also appeared on a few albums as 'the drummer' even though I moused in the drums.. lol..

    if you want to programme drums, it helps to be able to play them for real [which I can to a passable level] so that you can at least think like a drummer
    play every note as if it were your first
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  • guitarfishbayguitarfishbay Frets: 7953
    edited September 2017
    You can do a good quality song recording with a vocal mic, some basic room treatment, some amp sims and some decent drum samples.  Honestly the way the song is arranged and performed will outweigh all the sonic benefits of nice gear, especially in more tech or polished metal genres.  

    With drums - to beat samples for a typical metal kind of set up you need a long list of stuff - good drummer, good drumkit, good skins, good cymbals, good room, good mics, good performances, well engineered, well tuned, enough time to do the necessary number of takes...  Right now you're missing the key ingredient - the drummer, so I wouldn't worry about it at all right now, just get recording some good quality versions of the songs now and you can always re-record them with a drummer later if you want
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  • Thanks guys, a bud is looking at putting together a basic recording set up for me so there's a chance I can get some of these ideas into some form and use that to recruit a drummer. 
    " Why does it smell of bum?" Mrs Professorben.
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  • LuttiSLuttiS Frets: 2243
    Thanks guys, a bud is looking at putting together a basic recording set up for me so there's a chance I can get some of these ideas into some form and use that to recruit a drummer. 
    Basic recording to a high standard is so easy these days, an audio interface (focusrite good), Reaper (free for a while, then continues being free but a short wait to use it) and some plugins (Bias FX is the shizzle - still good stuff on the trial version) - may have to spend a little on ezdrummer or superior drummer.. you now have a fairly high quality set up at a super low cost :)
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  • LuttiS said:
    Thanks guys, a bud is looking at putting together a basic recording set up for me so there's a chance I can get some of these ideas into some form and use that to recruit a drummer. 
    Basic recording to a high standard is so easy these days, an audio interface (focusrite good), Reaper (free for a while, then continues being free but a short wait to use it) and some plugins (Bias FX is the shizzle - still good stuff on the trial version) - may have to spend a little on ezdrummer or superior drummer.. you now have a fairly high quality set up at a super low cost :)
    Yeah I'm gonna get a basic set up as funds allow. 
    " Why does it smell of bum?" Mrs Professorben.
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  • monquixotemonquixote Frets: 17485
    tFB Trader
    I found myself in this situation a few years ago and took the covers band option. 

    Had a few years of really enjoying getting to play regularly and get paid for it, but eventually just got bored of the whole thing and am currently not playing at all.

    From what you say I would think investing in DIY and sacking off the live playing would be the best bet.
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  • I found myself in this situation a few years ago and took the covers band option. 

    Had a few years of really enjoying getting to play regularly and get paid for it, but eventually just got bored of the whole thing and am currently not playing at all.

    From what you say I would think investing in DIY and sacking off the live playing would be the best bet.
    I've got my IT support working on it. 
    " Why does it smell of bum?" Mrs Professorben.
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