Slate: FG- Stress

octatonic

Audio nerds- go and check out the new Slate Distressor plugin FG-Stress.
It is absolutely worth it.

I've been comparing the plugin version to my hardware rack mount Distressor and it is dead nuts.
I genuinely cannot tell the difference between the hardware version and the software emulation.
What an immense achievement.

guitarfishbay

I saw.  I want to demo it, any indication how long the intro price will last?  It's not cheap, and I don't want to go on the subscription model.

octatonic

I don't know but despite having 3 of the full plugins I also went with the subscription model.
Works out to £11 a month- which is nothing for the quality of plugins you are getting.
It is the only plugin subscription I currently have.

guitarfishbay

Yeah I know, I could save £11 a month and my waistline if I stopped having a breakfast sandwich out once a week, but regardless I'm kind of mixed on subs with plugins.

Of the Bundle plugs I don't own, I'm only interested in this, and S Gear.

Buying both of those would equate to 2 years subs or there abouts, but without knowing what else is in the road map I'm not sold on it. I know if I'd bought in to the subscription model when it was launched I probably wouldn't have felt it was worth it, given I owned most of the stuff released before it became an option.

The other factor is they now don't do as big a sale on permanent licenses, they clearly want to funnel towards the subscription model. I've no doubt FG Stress will be $199 again at Black Friday but I wonder if it'll ever be lower.

equalsql

iLok requiered so that's a no no for me.

Deijavoo

Using plug ins maybe twice a year and still think that subscription sounds like great value.

I need a new interface and a load of mics too though at some point. 

guitarfishbay

I haven't tried it yet - but if anyone did want a permanent license AudioDeluxe are doing it with a $30 gift card currently with purchase.

https://www.audiodeluxe.com/products/audio-plug-ins/slate-digital-fg-stress

Cirrus

I've ended up writing a thought for the day on subscription models, I'll hide it so as not to derail the thread...

The thing about subscriptions are yes, it's an insanely low price to pay to suddenly have access to all this amazing stuff from day 1... but say you still plan on mixing in 6 years, 10 years, whatever. After 6 years you've paid about £800. If you want to be able to recall your mixes for the past 6 years, you still need to keep on paying that £11/month. After 10 years you've paid over £1,300 and it's the same story. You can keep on using the plugs... as long as you keep paying.

Whether or not that makes financial sense just depends on what you want and how you'll use the plugs. But in the long run, I know from past experience that out of all the plugs they have at the moment, I'd find three or four that I love and use loads and the rest would gradually fall by the wayside - maybe I'd just have no need for them, maybe I'd prefer something from a different company to do a particular job.

And yes, they'll keep adding new plugs to the bundle. Which is awesome. But again, for me... once the hype wears off, what will I use, what'll fall by the wayside, and how much time will I lose learning new plugs when I could be making music?

I suspect I'm just a troglodyte, and that's fine, but I can't shake my suspicion that in the long run, subscription models aren't really better than just paying the cost and knowing it'll always be there, as long as you can find a machine to run the software. And 10 years might seem like a long time, but I've just got Waves' API2500. It does things no other plugin I own does, including some very recent ones, and it's 10 years old.

I wonder how the Slate Distressor compares to the SKnote version? SKnote are a pretty sporadic, random company with some foibles, but it seems to be generally considered good.

guitarfishbay

Well, I agree with your hidden post.

I don't actually think constant new stuff is the answer anyway - it depends if you actually want any of it, this will vary from person to person.  The thing is it's possible to manipulate the prices in such a way that it seems better value to go on the subscription for medium term.  It's hard to directly compare, but the FG Stress is more than I remember spending on any other Slate Plug I own, and in general prices for more recent plugs seem higher than what I remember paying for my permanent licences in the past.  FG Stress currently costs more than a whole year of the bundle, if you want a couple of plugs then the bundle does make financial sense into the multiple years timescale.

In contrast, Waves' subscription seems pretty poor value to me - Mercury is $149 a month, current price of $2999 (which would include a year of WUP - so any new plugins released 12 months after purchase) - meaning that in little over than a year and a half, you might as well have bought the licence.  I know some people see WUP as a kind of subscription but really it isn't, I've never paid it once and all my plugs still work - I just can't sell anything outside of WUP and haven't had the new plugs (not many) added to my Gold bundle.

I do think Slate's products are generally very good, and they're a million times more stable now than they were a couple of years ago (when almost all my crashes were due to Slate plugs).  So in some ways the subscription model has probably been a good thing for them in terms of steady income - my guess is they maybe have more manpower for technical issues vs a few years ago.  I think subscriptions are a good thing for companies but potentially less so for consumers, it just depends on how it stacks up with your needs.

There are also companies that do a rent to own scheme, where you end up paying slightly more than buying an outright license but get flexibility in doing so...  that can be quite a useful middle ground for some.  

octatonic

Cirrus said:

I've ended up writing a thought for the day on subscription models, I'll hide it so as not to derail the thread...

The thing about subscriptions are yes, it's an insanely low price to pay to suddenly have access to all this amazing stuff from day 1... but say you still plan on mixing in 6 years, 10 years, whatever. After 6 years you've paid about £800. If you want to be able to recall your mixes for the past 6 years, you still need to keep on paying that £11/month. After 10 years you've paid over £1,300 and it's the same story. You can keep on using the plugs... as long as you keep paying.

Whether or not that makes financial sense just depends on what you want and how you'll use the plugs. But in the long run, I know from past experience that out of all the plugs they have at the moment, I'd find three or four that I love and use loads and the rest would gradually fall by the wayside - maybe I'd just have no need for them, maybe I'd prefer something from a different company to do a particular job.

And yes, they'll keep adding new plugs to the bundle. Which is awesome. But again, for me... once the hype wears off, what will I use, what'll fall by the wayside, and how much time will I lose learning new plugs when I could be making music?

I suspect I'm just a troglodyte, and that's fine, but I can't shake my suspicion that in the long run, subscription models aren't really better than just paying the cost and knowing it'll always be there, as long as you can find a machine to run the software. And 10 years might seem like a long time, but I've just got Waves' API2500. It does things no other plugin I own does, including some very recent ones, and it's 10 years old.

I wonder how the Slate Distressor compares to the SKnote version? SKnote are a pretty sporadic, random company with some foibles, but it seems to be generally considered good.

I have all of the Distressor-style plugins, I think.
Arouser, FG-Stress, Pensadia SOR8, Sly Fi Deflector, SK Note Distro, Kush UBK1 (the latter isn't meant to be a copy but it just happens to do similar things).
I also have the hardware so I've got an opportunity to AB them.

FG-Stress is the closest, in that is sounds exactly the same as the hardware.
None of the others do- but they get in the general direction.
Arouser isn't actually meant to be a 1:1 copy of the Distressor, but it is EL's version of a squishy compressor in plugin form.
It is great and I use it a lot but if I want to get the exact same sound as the Distressor in software then FG:Stress is the one I go for.

On plugin subscriptions- the market is heading that way. There is nothing you can do about it.
Eventually 'owning plugins' won't be a possible.
And on that point, you don't actually 'own a plugin'.
You just have a license to use it for a period of time.

The next software update then it is up to the developer whether they give you that update for free or for a charge.

So your point about 'if you want to recall your mixes after 6 years' doesn't really wash.
What I mean is go and buy a 'full license' of any plugin now.
In 6 years, without you paying for any upgrades it will still work on the system you have, with the same operating system, DAW version but it is almost a certainty that you won't have all that stuff.
You will probably have a different computer, you will almost certainly have a different OS and DAW version.

I have the Slate bundle on subscription- it took me a while to get used to the idea but now I prefer it to perpetual licenses.
Why?
Because I can manage my cash flow.
I have predicted outgoings and I can't be as easily surprised when a new version of X product comes out and the developer charges however much for the update.
I use most of the bundle so it is worthwhile.
It is worth checking the Pro Tools Expert plugin Calculator actually. LINKY

Same with Pro Tools HD.
I can either buy the software for $2500 plus $400 a year in plan renewal, or I can pay about $1000 a year for a subscription.
I've chosen to go for the subscription.
It just means I know what my costs will be for the year and it means I can stay current, which I need to do.

Cirrus

octatonic said:

On plugin subscriptions- the market is heading that way. There is nothing you can do about it.

We'll see about that. *dons armour*

All perfectly good points and I can totally understand that it all comes down to perspective on money, utility and the extent to which you can ever own a piece of code that only works because of other pieces of code.

Edit: Speaking of Kush, you used the Omega transformer plugs? I think they're pretty sweet.

guitarfishbay

The costing thing does make sense.  The issue is in the medium term there are a mixture of models available, some more viable than others, depending on goals and current licenses purchased.

Using that calculator shows it'll take 12 years to break even on Slate's Subscription, if starting from scratch.  I'm starting from a position of owning VCC, VTM, VBC, VMR, FG Blue, Custom EQs, and Bomber.  So really, all I want is FG Stress, and (to some extent) S-Gear, making my projected break even around 2 years.

And I guess this is an issue for multiple other people who've been spending money on software over the past decade or more.  Many people have a lot already invested in licenses, many of which are still being supported (assuming you've continued to upgrade, which I guess is a sporadic form of subscription, arguably). 

Perpetual licences still have some resale value, of course this will drop as people move towards the subscription mode, but I wonder if some companies will do a trade in on perpetual at some point.  As in - trade in X number of plugs get X amount off the subscription or X amount of free months.

Buying over time, I've got a bunch of stuff from Waves, Slate, Izotope, FabFilter, SoundToys etc (not to mention instrument and drum software from various others).  If they all switched to a subscription model at this point the cost of say 5-10 license subscriptions per month is going to be higher than I'd want to spend.

I wonder if the end game is ever going to be some kind of Spotify for music production tools.  It's not going to be £11 a month for that though.

octatonic

Cirrus said:

octatonic said:

On plugin subscriptions- the market is heading that way. There is nothing you can do about it.

We'll see about that. *dons armour*

All perfectly good points and I can totally understand that it all comes down to perspective on money, utility and the extent to which you can ever own a piece of code that only works because of other pieces of code.

It is also better for the plugin companies- not because they make more money, but because they have more predictable income streams and can plan development costs around it.
The main thing I want from a plugin company is their survival.
I've spent money in the past on plugins that now don't run on any platform- that sucks much more than a few quid out of my bank account a month.

Plugins are cheap compared to where they were when I bought my first Pro Tools HD rig.
I paid £1000 for 3 plugins from McDSP (Analog Channel, Compressor Bank & Filter Bank).
You can get the native version for those 3 plugins now for $49 a piece.

Actually McDSP is another company I am considering going for a subscription model with.
$149 a year for native or $249 a year for HD.
Every plugin they make is killer.

This brings me to another point, which is product orphaning.
One of the reasons I haven't spent money on a shiny control surface is I'm worried about an operating system update turning something into a hugely expensive doorstop.
Avid seem particularly bad at this.

guitarfishbay

Assuming $150-250 ends up being the going rate for plugin subscription models - do you think you'd take out a subscription at this level for each of the plugin companies you currently enjoy using?  Assuming both instrument and mix plug companies go this way.

I'm going to be honest, my answer is going to be no, mostly because I couldn't commit a theoretical $1-2k per year on plugins  continuously.

And if my software ever ended up not being supported, and I had to go on subscription, I'd probably reduce down to one or two companies - Fabfilter + a character type company such as Slate would do me fine.  Instruments would get more tricky I think, though being able to dip in and out of synth ownership would be useful to me.

I wonder if a Spotify type all major plugs/instruments production bundle would ever be viable, and what it'd need to cost.  

guitarfishbay

Thinking about it that post reads a bit too linked in to personal finances which I honestly have no interest prying into other people's money situation, and of course the amount someone makes directly from the use of the software has an impact on the viability of the subs anyway.

But my basic thought process - as someone who records music as a hobby at this point, the subscription model kind of doesn't work for me, and I'd personally not be happy with all companies going subs only.

It's an entirely different proposition to someone who owns zero plugs, or zero plugs from a company.  And a different one again to someone who needs to keep on top of everything and have everything fully functional to make money from it.

I already own most of what I want to own, I figure many other hobbyists end up in a similar position after multiple years (assuming they can resist the Gearslutz New Products section).  I wouldn't want to budget a theoretical high yearly figure to subscribe to the equivalent updates of each company I like.  I do understand the flipside of this is the companies do need continuous income.

I do wonder what state the plugins industry will be in, in say 5 years time.  In general price per plugin has gone down - the market has clearly increased in size but it won't increase forever in all fields.  So subs probably are the future, I just don't know how many hobbyists will take on multiple subs and surely hobbyists are a big part of market share for plugins (guessing of course).

octatonic

guitarfishbay said:

Assuming $150-250 ends up being the going rate for plugin subscription models - do you think you'd take out a subscription at this level for each of the plugin companies you currently enjoy using?  Assuming both instrument and mix plug companies go this way.

I'm going to be honest, my answer is going to be no, mostly because I couldn't commit a theoretical $1-2k per year on plugins  continuously.

And if my software ever ended up not being supported, and I had to go on subscription, I'd probably reduce down to one or two companies - Fabfilter + a character type company such as Slate would do me fine.  Instruments would get more tricky I think, though being able to dip in and out of synth ownership would be useful to me.

I wonder if a Spotify type all major plugs/instruments production bundle would ever be viable, and what it'd need to cost.  

It would depend on my workflow, what sort of work I was doing & how much income I was receiving vs how much I could write off against tax.
Right now, yes I can justify it but I'm not rushing into subscriptions.
I'm actually putting more money into hardware- the Rednet/HDX rig, more outboard, mics and probably going back to using some sort of console.
Once all that is sorted I'll see what is going on with plugins.

One thing I am pushing for with the companies I've been beta testing with is ensuring that all licenses give you the ability to install two copies- one on a desktop and one on a portable.
So many people are moving sessions between two computers now that it makes it necessary to have both computers licensed.

I hate taking my iLok out of the house- it is too valuable to lose and there is currently no real way that you can properly insure them.
Some companies do it right- Eventide and Soundtoys both give you two authorisations.
Slate do it with some of their plugins but not others (and not on the subscription), which is really irritating.
Brainworx & Cytomic do a challenge/response which is fine.
Valhalla and a few others just use a simple password.

If I had to gravitate to using some plugins but not others it would be to use the ones that allowed flexibility with licensing, rather than worrying about subscription vs perpetual licenses.
YMMV of course.